Ravens-Redskins "Rivalry"

[Jake83]

Hey guys, I'm writing an article for What's Up? Annapolis Magazine about the Redskins and Ravens "rivalry" and wanted to get the fan perspective on it.

I have a few questions for you all. If you would like the chance to be cited in the magazine by your real name but don't want to give it out on the boards, you can send it to me in a private message.

If you have any information or opinions you'd like to add after answering the questions, please feel free to do so.

Thanks for taking part in this.

Here are the questions:

- Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?
- What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?
- Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?
- What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?
- What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?
- What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?
- What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

[rharris1986]

The foundation of the "rivalry" to the extent that there is one goes back to the Colts era. Washington has always been envious of the success of Baltimore sports teams - Colts, Orioles, and now the Ravens. Washington is a phony baloney town and always has been. Baltimore is blue collar and has a much more "real" fan base.

But the real animosity towards the Redskins these days goes back to the fact that Jack Kent Cook was the ONE individual standing in the way of Baltimore getting an NFL expansion team between 1984 (when the Irsay's snuck out of town in the middle of a snow storm) and 1996 (when Modell brought the Browns to Baltimore). Cook stood in the way of Baltimore getting an expansion team because he was greedy and wanted to incorporate Baltimore into the Redskins market/fan base. It didn't work because the nature of Baltimore is so different from DC. Baltimore didn't get back into the NFL until after he died - a welcomed event for most Baltimore football fans.

There is no rivalry between the teams - only dislike for Washington D.C. Baltimore's rivalry is with Pittsburgh - is and always has been - and it goes all the way back to when Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are similar blue collar towns - and we will fight it out again this year on the field.

Hey guys, I'm writing an article for What's Up? Annapolis Magazine about the Redskins and Ravens "rivalry" and wanted to get the fan perspective on it.

I have a few questions for you all. If you would like the chance to be cited in the magazine by your real name but don't want to give it out on the boards, you can send it to me in a private message.

If you have any information or opinions you'd like to add after answering the questions, please feel free to do so.

Thanks for taking part in this.

Here are the questions:

- Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?
- What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?
- Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?
- What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?
- What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?
- What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?
- What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

[HoustonRaven]

Disagree about "hating Washington DC". IMO, those folks are few and far between. We showed last NHL season, there are a good number of folks here are Caps fans and Ravens fans.

As for a rivalry, I'd say ambivalence exists, not a rivalry. Our Steelers game is a rivalry. Us playing the Colts can be squeezed into the category as well, given the past Colts saga. JKC did his fare share to deny us a new team but he's on the other side of the grass, taking his nonsense with him.

The Redskins a rivalry? Nope.

[DkBlue]

Disagree about "hating Washington DC". IMO, those folks are few and far between. We showed last NHL season, there are a good number of folks here are Caps fans and Ravens fans.

As for a rivalry, I'd say ambivalence exists, not a rivalry. Our Steelers game is a rivalry. Us playing the Colts can be squeezed into the category as well, given the past Colts saga. JKC did his fare share to deny us a new team but he's on the other side of the grass, taking his nonsense with him.

The Redskins a rivalry? Nope.

Kind of reminds me of Steelers-Eagles. Many expect it to be a rvalry, it is not.

[Ravenswintitle]

I root for the Caps, Georgetown and Wizards so no issues with DC. Actually I'm watching the Skins this year pretty closely to see how RGIII performs. I think he could be a solid QB for years to come.

Don't think there is any rivalry per se. If they became a contender year after year, as the Ravens have done, then you might have something. Otherwise we make fun of Danny and their ineptness but it's not a big deal.

[Rxdoxx]

The only rivalry you are going to really find (other than trumped up media hype.... battle of the beltways bullsh*t)
is....
in areas where there are fans of both, possibly workplaces in Columbia, Annapolis, and that is bragging rights banter.

I know a lot of Skins fans, and I wish them well all the time, except when they are playing a purple bird.
Any rivalry is strictly a media created issue, not a reality, and believe me we here in Baltimore know about writers with the ability to create issues out of bullsh*t.

[BillickFan]

I don't dislike DC. I take my kids there, I go to concerts there. I root for Caps & Wiz. But........

I friggin' hate the 4Skins. Why? When Bob Irsay (may he rot in hell) moved the Colts to Indy, the league and Jack Kent Cooke jammed the Skins down our throat. Back in the days when 49ers vs Cowboys was the game of the year & would determine home field advantage thru the playoffs, we never got that game on TV here. We were stuck w/the Deadskins vs. Cardinals or some other atrocity. Why? JKC & the league considered Bmore the local DC market. They were forced on us in the days before sports bars & cable showing every game possible.

Add in the back room deals that Jack Kent Crook put together to keep the NFL out of Baltimore and you have outright hatred of that franchise. Now that JKC is gone, it's lessened. And, with little Danny Snyder at the helm, they've provided great comedy. (Spurrier, Zorn, Gibb v2.0, Albert Haynesworth......) So, it's tough to hate the pathetic. The distaste is mellowing & the fact that we keep winning & Danny keeps meddling (if he didn't remind me so much of a young Peter Angelos it would be even better) and setting the franchise back a few years means that after Pgh & Indy, the Skins are the 3rd team on my "My favorite teams are the RAvens & whoever is playing Pgh, Indy & Skins....." list. And there's a steep drop btwn the 1st 2 and the Skins.

Is it a rivalry? Not really. They haven't been good enough to be considered a rival. Different conferences. Different schedules. There's a mini-rivalry with some of the fans, but it's not a heated intense rivalry like with Pgh. I think it's funny that their fans have a wee bit of arrogance b/c of their vaunted traditions & history, but the team has sucked so it's mostly hot air & tough to take them seriously. Their fans are like the guy who talks about how tough he is & then some non-descript non-threatening guy walks toward him & he runs away. Skins have been kings of the off-season, signing big name players, etc. but it hasn't translated to on the field success. That waters down any kind of rivalry. Is it still fun to make fun of them? Sure! Is it still fun to pick on their fans? You betcha. But is it a real rivalry? Nope, never will be because we don't play often enough & the stakes aren't as high. And, unless you're in your 40's or older, you don't even know about the Jack Kent Cooke thing.

[Mista T]

Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?

A minor rival. When there was the annual Colts-Redskins game, the rivalry was real, albeit one-sided. Even though the Colts dominated the series at one time 14-2 over the late '50s-'60s, and the Redskins were bottom-feeders, many of their fans looked to the Baltimore game as the biggest of the season. The only times that Griffith or DC stadium would sell out was the bi-annual visit by the Colts. Every four years of Ravens-Redskins, plus the one-sidedness, has placed a damper on the enthusiasm.

The demise of the Redskins franchise in the 90's to present has taken the excitement out of playing them. Moreover, the pendulum swinging -- when DC has a contender, we don't, and vice versa. Look it up: since DC entered the NFL in the 1933 and Baltimore in 1950, there have been only two seasons ('71 & '76) when both cities' teams made the playoffs. The Redskins were a perennial contender only when Baltimore did not have a team. During the fourteen seasons since the '99 season, when both Snyder and Bisciotti arrived, the Redskins have made the playoffs only three times, and otherwise were not in playoff contention, while the Ravens made the playoffs eight times and were in December contention eleven seasons.

Also, with Jack Kent Crook's passing, there is no lightning rod of evil any more. The only emotion that I can feel regarding Dan Snyder is sympathy for Redskins fans.

What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?

Reverting to an annual or at least bi-annual game, coupled with return to respectability by the Redskins, might pump some blood into the rivalry. Remotely possible if the NFL were to adopt the 17 game season and the Rooney "rivalry" plan offered a few years back as the 17th game (this idea was bandied about by some NFL owners a few years ago).

Or reorganizing the NFL to place both Baltimore and Landover in the same division -- never going to happen, as the East Coast alternates AFC/NFC teams along I-95 to spread Fox/CBS coverage.

Preseason games are a joke. They don't contribute to rivalries.

Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?

Redskins fans. Just read their message boards when the subject of the Ravens comes up: many of them post derogatory comments while looking down their noses, despite the mediocrity of their team and their obvious envy our successes. "methinks the Redskins fan doth protest too much".

What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?

I used to root against them. Due to the Redskins fans, who used to be obnoxious (see below) -- they are now merely indifferent.

I have subsequently mellowed into neutrality, but not indifference. I attend about one event at FedEx Field each season: i.e. every Ravens scrimmage, preseason, reg season game, plus some draft days and a few non-conflicting other Redskins games -- I live closer to Raljon than Camden Yards and Redskins tickets can be acquired at half of face value or better (there was a reason why Snyder covered up or removed 14,000 seats). I receive all the Redskins games on Verizon, watching those which don't conflict with games involving our division rival. Plus the bombardment of Redskins shows on Comcast and DC broadcast TV channels makes it easy. Plus the Sun now charging for their web-site, leaving the Annapolis Evening Capital and the Washington Post as the only local newspapers free on the internet with decent Ravens coverage, but also Redskins exposure.

What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?

When I grew up in Annapolis, there were no Redskins fans north of Edgewater. I first encountered them at College Park, later at Goddard Space Flight Center and found many of them them to be offensive, know-nothings, and green with envy (that included Senators fans towards the Orioles). Mean-spirited trolls also: rubbing salt in wounds when the Colts would lose playoff games.

Redskin fans have gone through a lot of change since the Redskins became mediocre, starting with the 1993 season and into the Danny Snyder "glory years". Many of the old die-hards seemed to have lost interest. While there used to be a good sized contingent around Annapolis and mid-Anne Arundel County, they pretty much have just disappeared, judging by the dearth of Redskins car flags, license plates, and apparel worn at Annapolis Mall. I had expected many to crawl out of their hiding spots due the the RG3 excitement, but it hasn't been much different.

What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?

Any time Ed Reed would get close to the ball. In the 2004 game, he single-handedly outmaneuvered the RB blocker, stripped the ball from the Redskins QB, and ran it back for a TD to turn the game around into the Ravens 17-10 win. In the 2008 game, he caused another fumble and ran it back for a TD in the 24-10 rout.

What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

Two short tales at Raljon:

(1) Mrs. T, after paying her respects to Dan Snyder's toilets during the 2000 game, was approached by a sarcastic, thumb-up-her-ass Redskin female fan who was jabbing at her for wearing purple warpaint and her signature hair style of purple feathers sprouting out of her single braid. Sarcastic thumb-up-ass Redskin fan: "Is this how you Ravens fans dress up to try to impress us?". Mrs T: "You should see how we dress for Halloween!"

(2) Leaving the loge level (freebie seats) after the 2004 Ed Reed show, we came across a bloodied Ravens female fan who had been accosted in the stairwell by a Redskins male fan, who subsequently ducked into one of the suites. PG County police, in pursuit, came running down the hallway behind the suites, so we did our civic duty by narcking out the location of the perpetrator. Another Redskins fan, who acted like an authority figure, stood in the doorway to the suite, telling the cop that it was a private function which he could not barge. PG County's finest raised his billy-club and told the obnoxious Redskins fan to step aside or he would be arrested. The cop swiftly went inside the suite, handcuffed the attacker, brought him out to the Ravens female fan (half his size), who promptly identified him. Those of us watching this spectacle gave a warm round of applause to the cop as hauled away the perpetrator.


Jake: good luck with your story. It's an interesting topic around Annapolis and should be a well read feature in your magazine, which I subscribe to.

Portending things to come: the Ravens scrimmage a few weeks ago drew 22,000+ at Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium, while Snyder almost simultaneously announced that the Redskins are moving their training camp to Richmond; the Redskins are ceding central Maryland to the Ravens. There will always be a few Redskins loyalists, but they will likely stay in the shadows for the next 5 to 10 years as that franchise will continue to wallow in mediocrity after the double hit of depleting its stock of draft picks in the RG3 trade, and having its cap reduced by $36 million by the NFL.

[downside52]

No more or less than any other team. The Steelers and their 2 superbowls in the last 10 years are a rival - their success matches and even in some seasons exceeds ours and we consistently hope that this year's team can keep up with and even beat them. The redskins have not managed to have any significant or consistent success since the inception of the Ravens and thus if you wanted to pick a nearby team for a rivalry for them perhaps the browns would be a better choice.

[RavenScallywag]

The rivalry I see more is fans in the opposing market, who are frustrated at living in a city where another team is "king". My in-laws talk a lot of smack about the Ravens. It seems that it's mainly from the fact that they get tired of seeing Ravens fans all over the place. Go figure, you might see a lot of BALTIMORE Ravens fans in BALTIMORE. I can expect some of the same behavior of Ravens fans who live in Southern MD/DC areas...

From a team perspective, it's probably more a friendly rivalry. We don't really matter to each other. We see them once every 4 years, that's it. The on the field "rivalry" would only come from the close proximity. And again, I bet you not a single Raven, except maybe those who grew up in the Baltimore/DC area, care when we play the Redskins any more than when we play any other NFC team.

[wickedsolo]

- Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?

Maybe to a small degree. I would probably compare a rivalry between the Ravens and the Skins to a rivalry between the Eagles and Steelers or maybe even the Jets and the Giants. Sure, there is some mild form of rivalry there, but it is largely due to geography and not necessarily the actual teams. The problem with trying to define teams like that as being rivals is they just don't ever play each other. The Ravens and the Steelers are a legitimate rivalry. Both cities are similar, the fan base is similar, and they play each other twice a year. My father was an avid Redskins fan and from that I know that the Redskins' true rival is and will always be the Dallas Cowboys.

- What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. It is difficult for the Ravens and Redskins to really ever develop a true rivalry. Combine the lack of actual regular season games with the fact that the Redskins have made the playoffs just three times in the last sixteen seasons (since 1996 when the Ravens were founded) and haven't won a playoff game since 2005 and you don't really have a good recipe for a rivalry. The fact is the Redskins just are't very good. Maybe things will change now that they have RGIII, but I'm not so sure. They're in a tough division and Dan Snyder consistently seems more interested in making headlines and selling tickets than putting together a winning team. Just look at some of the contracts that he and his staff sign players to.

- Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?

If there is a rivalry - and I'm not saying there is - I definitely see Redskins fans taking it more seriously. I think the average Ravens fan is pretty indifferent to the Redskins as a whole. Honestly, I would like to think that most Redskins fans probably care way more about playing the Eagles, Giants, and Cowboys than a potential pre-season game once every so often.

- What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?

I don't hate them. I don't really hate any team, but I don't really root for them either. Frankly, I find them somewhat amusing. Every year seems to be "the year" that the Redskins get back to restoring some of that glory, but it never happens once the regular season starts. I don't see a team built on chemistry and the willingness to do what it takes to win. I see an owner dedicated to selling tickets and merchandise at one of the most expensive stadiums in the league and I see a bunch of high profile players more interested in making a ridiculous contract instead of trying to win a championship. To me, it seems like Dan Snyder has a secret rivalry with Jerry Jones (owner of the Dallas Cowboys) to see who can spend the most money and still disappoint their fans.

- What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?

Again, I'm pretty indifferent to them. Some can be jerks, but a lot of them talk a tough game until you point out things like Albert Haynesworth and then they kind of put their hands in their pocket, slump their shoulders, tilt their head down and kick some rocks. On a whole, I see a fan base that is being taken advantage of honestly. I don't think Dan Snyder has any interest in putting a winning product out on the field. I think he is more interested in selling overpriced food, merch, and tickets while entertaining Tom Cruise.

- What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?

Probably Ed Reed causing Clinton Portis to fumble and then picking the fumble up and returning it for a TD. The Redskins were never going to win that game. Even with a rookie head coach and a rookie QB at the helm in Baltimore, the Redskins still couldn't hang with the Ravens.

- What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

I don't have a funny or memorable story about a friend or family member who is a Redskins fan, but I went to Dickinson College and played football there and my freshman year was the last year that they had their training camp up in Carlisle PA. We worked out with them and watched them practice and it was pretty cool to interact with a lot of those guys. When I was in middle school and high school I went to Art Monk's football camp that he sponsored and met a lot of guys like Ken Harvey, Tre Johnson, and Art himself. Darrell Green was, and still is, one of my all time favorite players. I thought he was a quintessential professional and I liked the way he played the game.

One day after practice LaVarr Arrington was shooting the breeze with some of us and asked what our record was the previous season. He said if we wanted to get better then we needed more "soul" on our team and we needed more bass in the locker room. He was joking around and didn't mean anything serious by it at all. *The reason he even said that was because Dickinson College (while an extremely good school) has always had troubles with the diversity of their student body.*

[Jake83]

I just wanted to thank you guys for your participation in this.

The December issue of What's Up? Annapolis Magazine is out now and the article is one of the cover stories.

Feel free to pick it up in the Annapolis Barnes and Noble or your local grocery store.

Also, you can follow me on Twitter @_JakeRussell. My 1,000th follower (Only 17 away!) gets a free autographed magazine from me personally.

Thanks again!