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  1. #31
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status



    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Numbers shmumbers. It was obvious to most Ravens fans that Flacco was improved last year, even if he didn't put up better stats.
    This.




  2. #32
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Numbers shmumbers. It was obvious to most Ravens fans that Flacco was improved last year, even if he didn't put up better stats.
    I'm sorry, but there is no way to objectively evaluate a player or team without numbers having at least a small part. Fact is, he may have been a better player than his rookie season (no question in my book) but the numbers he posted did not bear this out. Additionally, the same people who want to ignore his numbers from last year do not hesitate to throw out "he's led the team to 44 wins, etc. etc.". You cant say numbers don't matter when it doesn't suit your argument, then trot them out when you want to make a point.




  3. #33
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by alienrace View Post
    Numbers shmumbers. It was obvious to most Ravens fans that Flacco was improved last year, even if he didn't put up better stats.



    Some people can't wait for Flacco to fail.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  4. #34
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    I'm sorry, but there is no way to objectively evaluate a player or team without numbers having at least a small part. Fact is, he may have been a better player than his rookie season (no question in my book) but the numbers he posted did not bear this out.
    Huh? Didn't he throw for 700 more yards and 7 more td's with the same number of int's than he did as a rookie? Or are you going to cherry pick a number to make that argument? Like completion percentage...




  5. #35
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    I'm sorry, but there is no way to objectively evaluate a player or team without numbers having at least a small part. Fact is, he may have been a better player than his rookie season (no question in my book) but the numbers he posted did not bear this out. Additionally, the same people who want to ignore his numbers from last year do not hesitate to throw out "he's led the team to 44 wins, etc. etc.". You cant say numbers don't matter when it doesn't suit your argument, then trot them out when you want to make a point.
    It's kind of different when you have a almost entirely new receiving core to work with, and run the ball a ton.

    Lets have a look at the fantasy darlings and who they've had to work with over the past.

    Tony Romo- Plays in the best stadium in the NFL, plays in a mostly defensively weak division and check who he's had to throw to over the last few seasons.
    Miles Austin
    Dez Bryant
    Jason Witten
    Laurent Robinson (Now a go to guy in Jacksonville)

    He has never really had to deal with massive amounts of change overs in offensive personnel either.

    Matt Ryan- Plays in a dome, also plays in mostly a defensively weak division.
    Gets to throw to...
    Roddy White- Top 5 receiver in the NFL
    Tony Gonzales
    Has had Mike Turner pounding the ball for him
    Julio Jones (Admittedly only had him last season, but the guy will be a top 5 receiver pretty soon, you can take that to the bank)

    Matthew Stafford- Plays in a dome, plays in mostly a defensively weak division.
    Has had Calvin Johnson to throw to (that alone is better than any other QB gets to work with)
    Brandon Pettigrew is not a bad target at all
    Nate Burleson (Solid receiver)
    Titus Young (Not as good as Torrey Smith, but a speedy threat)

    I'm not going to note the other QB's like Tom Brady, Brees, or Rogers, as they are just clearly better than Flacco, I was noting down some QB's who I think Flacco is better than, and QB's I think are masked by stats, and their receivers/environment they play in.

    Now lets have a look who Flacco has had over the course of his career.

    Anquan Boldin (Solid slot receiver, but not a top 10 guy)
    Derrick Mason (Was ageing, and started to decline after Flaccos rookie year, was never a top 10 receiver while Flacco was here)
    Todd Heap (Solid, great blocking, pass catching TE who was declining and struggled to stay healthy)
    Ray Rice- Can't argue with this, he's clearly better than any other RB the above listed guys have had.
    Torrey Smith (Raw rookie last year, looks like he could finally be a true #1 receiver for Flacco going into this year)

    Basically Flacco has NEVER had a game breaking, true freak of nature #1 receiver that all those other guys have had. Torrey Smith is finally that go to guy, he has all the tools to be a #1 receiver which is why I think we could see Flacco's statistics go up this year. Torrey Smith is big, athletic as hell, arguably the fastest receiver in the NFL, and is starting to get good at route running and pass catching. Flacco also had two emerging athletic TE's in Pitta and Dickson.

    The reason I think Flacco is better than the three listed above is simply because I think Flacco can make the throws to win games, and he has proven that, he is much more clutch than those guys. He can throw in the windy cold shit weather in Pittsburgh on a cold November night with a ton of crowd noise, and drive 99 yards up field and toss the winning TD. I have NEVER seen any of those QB's do that, sure I've seen some pretty explosive games from those guys, where you'd go away impressed as hell, but I've never seen any of them win a big game yet.




  6. #36
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Flacco is going to get paid huge money by the Ravens. It will be more next season than it is now. They've already said he's going nowhere. Better to pay him before the price goes up.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  7. #37
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Flacco is going to get paid huge money by the Ravens. It will be more next season than it is now. They've already said he's going nowhere. Better to pay him before the price goes up.
    I'm predicting an extension before the bye week.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  8. #38
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    leach--
    Thanks for elaborating on what I was trying to note in my post. It's more constructive to provide the analysis and thinking behind this type of conversation v. just saying "These numbers are good/no good."

    Further, IMHO it's a no-win scenario trying to argue the concept of "better" without having a starting point and definition. What does that adjective even mean? Taking two numbers like turnovers and declining completion percentage as absolutes to justify a QB's value (or not) is disingenuous without any context. You've provided a perspective that at least allows for an intelligent debate.




  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I'm predicting an extension before the bye week.
    Indeed. NLT the bye. It's timing alone is perfect.


    From my SGIII
    "On their way to the podium, the Ravens FO is going to collectively step over my dead body and select...Breshad Perriman." -- Me, the day before the Draft

    Settle down. John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco's Baltimore Ravens can beat any team, anywhere.

    Having fun talking football and tech stuff on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  10. #40

    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    In watching the Jacksonville game it looked like Cam Cameron finally realized that the offensive line is our weakeness on offense. I saw quick slants to Boldin along with other quick action plays. We didn't have all our receivers running 9's and hoping that Flacco would have time. If this continues into the season, then i think flacco could have a great year. We've been teased by Cameron in the preseason before though. It was great to hear that both Pitta and Dickson are back at practice, but I've been impressed with Bajema so far. looks like great depth at tight end.
    Cameron never teased us like this before and trust me it's real, Joe demanded that the offense become more aggressive. If Cameron wants to protect his reputation he will keep this up, going back will expose him more and more.




  11. #41

    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post



    Some people can't wait for Flacco to fail.
    They will be old and gray while waiting, it's not going to happen.




  12. #42
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarRay52 View Post
    Cameron never teased us like this before and trust me it's real, Joe demanded that the offense become more aggressive. If Cameron wants to protect his reputation he will keep this up, going back will expose him more and more.
    I honestly have a feeling that Ozzie had a chat with Cameron.

    Something along the lines of...

    "Look, we really like you and what you've done with us since we hired you, but you really gotta let Joe play if you want to retain your job here. No more 1960's shit, we want to actually field a pro NFL offense this year, playing to everyone's strengths, we want to see something big from Flacco this year. Those are the terms if you want to carry on calling plays here."




  13. #43

    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I honestly have a feeling that Ozzie had a chat with Cameron.

    Something along the lines of...

    "Look, we really like you and what you've done with us since we hired you, but you really gotta let Joe play if you want to retain your job here. No more 1960's shit, we want to actually field a pro NFL offense this year, playing to everyone's strengths, we want to see something big from Flacco this year. Those are the terms if you want to carry on calling plays here."
    Yeah I'm guessing the conversation went like that, the way Ozzie and Bisciotti talked up Joe at the State of Ravens press conference was also a sign of things to come. They want to properly evaluate him since money is now part of the equation. There is a buzz about the no huddle offense, more people know Cameron has been holding Joe back besides Greg Cosell (Adam Caplan Scout.com, Evan Silva RotoWorld and Pro Football Talk, Jay Glazer just to name a few). It will be ugly for Cameron if they go back to that pathetic old school offensive set.




  14. #44
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    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Petard View Post
    leach--
    Thanks for elaborating on what I was trying to note in my post. It's more constructive to provide the analysis and thinking behind this type of conversation v. just saying "These numbers are good/no good."

    Further, IMHO it's a no-win scenario trying to argue the concept of "better" without having a starting point and definition. What does that adjective even mean? Taking two numbers like turnovers and declining completion percentage as absolutes to justify a QB's value (or not) is disingenuous without any context. You've provided a perspective that at least allows for an intelligent debate.
    I'm a pretty straight forward guy when it comes to straight forward things when it comes to analysing positions like running back, guard, or linebacker. For those positions, they are easily judged on whether they are bad, good, elite, or mediocre by what they do on the stat sheet (usually) with how many tackles/sacks/yards gained on the ground etc... You can argue about certain RB's who have maybe looked a little better then what they really are if their running behind a great offensive line, but in today's league, with how fast and strong players are, the days of mediocre RB's gaining 1k yards behind good offensive lines are gone. You either have it or you don't.

    Judging a QB is a totally different kind of beast. This is why I hate talking heads or analysts just looking at someone's stats, and making a judgement on whether or not they are good or bad. Which is why I hate the blunt responses of "Flacco's completion rate dropped this year, he obviously regressed, and had his worst year as a QB". 2011 was BY FAR Flaccos best year, I am happy to argue to death with anyone who disagrees with that.




  15. #45

    Re: Flacco Contract Status

    I think that this is more likely than not.

    I think Joe will go out there and light up the night sky with all the receivers he's got now - and put points on the board and take control of games - and Ray Rice will get his yards keeping defenses honest and mopping up the end of games.


    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I honestly have a feeling that Ozzie had a chat with Cameron.

    Something along the lines of...

    "Look, we really like you and what you've done with us since we hired you, but you really gotta let Joe play if you want to retain your job here. No more 1960's shit, we want to actually field a pro NFL offense this year, playing to everyone's strengths, we want to see something big from Flacco this year. Those are the terms if you want to carry on calling plays here."




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