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  1. #106
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?



    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    That is a good point, we don't know how those guys will look when the lights come on. It's easy to anoint them "the next" this or the next that, without seeing them do it when it counts.
    .
    This is probably the gist of this entire discussion.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  2. #107
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Go hop in a time machine and go watch last years preseason again. Evans looked great, he was the talk of the town and was forming a good connection with Joe. then he got hurt again. I dont think you can play as well as he did if it was still hurt to begin with.

    Torrey however looked awful. Doss clearly outplayed him (7 for 72 while still recovering from injury) and Reed still showed more than Torrey (5 for 84). He had an awful TC and preseason, even by rookie standards. I wasnt even sure he caught a ball until his 3rd preseason game before looking it up. he had 0, 1 for 2 yards, 1 for 6, and 2 for 12 (Evans had 6 for 128 in limited PT and only 2 games). The only reason he played at all was because Evans got hurt and we needed SOMEBODY with speed to take the top off the D or our offense would have been dead in the water. He was the only guy that fit that description. He took the opportunity and made the most of it, kudos to him and luckily for us. Its really a sign of what in game experience and gaining confidence can do for a young player. not everyone reacts the same way obviously and if he didnt have that huge game in STL than maybe his confidence isnt as high and he never becomes the WR he is today.

    He was arguably the 5th best WR on the team after the preseason. if youre saying he was destined to play because of injury thats obviously what happened, but to say he was going to play regardless if Evans was healthy or not isnt supported and by no means is it ridiculous to think such.




  3. #108
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    The WRs were more in roles last year. Doss represented a style similar to Boldin, which they didn't need. Smith represented a style similar to Evans, which they needed.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  4. #109
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Let the Bungles in the opener sleep on Jacoby & count on him not catching anything thrown in his direction. All he has to do is catch one deep pass--one--& from that point forward every opponent will be forced to account for him as a deep threat, the top will be lifted from the D, & the rest of the offense will be loaded for bear.
    Amen! You have made the most important point in the entire thread. (IMHO, of course)

    I hope for the best from Doss, LQW, Deonte, Streeter, (Reed?) etc. But how many total passes has that entire group caught in real NFL games?




  5. #110

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Go hop in a time machine and go watch last years preseason again. Evans looked great, he was the talk of the town and was forming a good connection with Joe. then he got hurt again. I dont think you can play as well as he did if it was still hurt to begin with.

    Torrey however looked awful. Doss clearly outplayed him (7 for 72 while still recovering from injury) and Reed still showed more than Torrey (5 for 84). He had an awful TC and preseason, even by rookie standards. I wasnt even sure he caught a ball until his 3rd preseason game before looking it up. he had 0, 1 for 2 yards, 1 for 6, and 2 for 12 (Evans had 6 for 128 in limited PT and only 2 games). The only reason he played at all was because Evans got hurt and we needed SOMEBODY with speed to take the top off the D or our offense would have been dead in the water. He was the only guy that fit that description. He took the opportunity and made the most of it, kudos to him and luckily for us. Its really a sign of what in game experience and gaining confidence can do for a young player. not everyone reacts the same way obviously and if he didnt have that huge game in STL than maybe his confidence isnt as high and he never becomes the WR he is today.

    He was arguably the 5th best WR on the team after the preseason. if youre saying he was destined to play because of injury thats obviously what happened, but to say he was going to play regardless if Evans was healthy or not isnt supported and by no means is it ridiculous to think such.
    There's couple of points to this quote.

    First, I have said over and over that a healthy Evans would have helped this team out a lot. There is no debating that. Jones would not be here and Evans still would.

    Second, Torrey was in line to be the 3rd WR. And you "hop in the time machine", we ran quite a bit of 3 WR sets in the first 2 games last year. So yes, Torrey would have played quite a bit...unless you are one of those people who feel as though if you aren't starting or on the field 70% of the time you are barely playing.

    And as for the 5th best WR on the team stuff...that is the fans opinion. The team didn't think he was the 5th best...they saw something in him and kept him in there. If anything, that tells me that they were going to force feed Torrey in a pretty important role here whether the fans demanded that he be relegated to special teams only or not. When we had Evans, we had Evans take the spot outside that Jones is playing now and he played outside with Torrey with Boldin in the slot.

    And yes the team got lucky to an extent. I guess Torrey is going to be the guy people point to to support the "let the young guys play" argument, despite the fact for years this team has drafted and brought in young guys that they "let play", didn't go after proven guys and forced Patrick Johnson, Randy Hymes, Demetrius Williams, Yamon Figurs, Devard Darling, Ron Johnson and even Travis Taylor and Mark Clayton to an extent (and for the record, I was VERY against trading Clayton and signing Houshmanzadeh) down our throats...waiting on them to develop (and another is on the fast track to joining that great group of one time promising young WR to the scrap heap). I was one of Torrey's biggest fans last camp and defenders on this board so nobody was happier to see the young man succeed than me. That does not however cloud my judgement when it comes to the others.

    The fact is that the team has as much of a shitty record with young WR's as they do with vets they bring in. So saying one is definitely better than the other is not based on any facts.




  6. #111

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I think Torrey Smith is definitely an example of why we shouldn't buy that much into how a rookie does in the pre season. Thanks for bringing those stats up JAB.
    The one thing about Torrey from last offseason that the stats don't show is that he was contantly getting open. That - and the fact that he's a 2nd round pick and was the only speed guy after Evans - is exactly why the team stuck with him and gave him first crack at WR when Evans couldn't stay healthy.

    Even with the drops (and troubles locating the ball) he had in PS, he showed that he could create separation and beat teams deep, which obviously has historically been a problem for Ravens' WRs.

    Lastly, FWIW, Smith was the 3rd WR in the season opener against Pitts. Not sure how much he played, though, since we got up early on the Steelers and never looked back, negating the need for 3-wide sets.
    Last edited by B-more Ravor; 08-22-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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  7. #112
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    The one thing about Torrey from last offseason that the stats don't show is that he was contantly getting open. That - and the fact that he a 2nd round pick and was the only speed guy after Evans - is exactly why the team stuck with him and gave him first crack at WR when Evans couldn't stay healthy.

    Even with the drops (and troubles locating the ball) he had in PS, he showed that he could create separation and beat teams deep, which obviously has historically been a problem for Ravens' WRs.

    Lastly, FWIW, Smith was the 3rd WR in the season opener against Pitts. I doubt he played much, though, since we got up early on the Steelers and never looked back, negating the need for 3-wide sets.
    All very good points Ravor.


    I also think that Torrey is the first receiver the Ravens have had/drafted (other than Mason & possibly Boldin) that you could actually see them getting better as the season progressed and you could actually see their routes getting better, their hands getting better, and developing more of a connection with Flacco and the rest of the offense.
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  8. #113

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Last year in preseason, Torrey was also going up against CB's like Nnamdi Asomugha and DeAngelo Hall while Doss was playing against 3rd and 4th stringers who may not be in the league anymore. IMO having watched all of Torrey's college games, he never played with a strong-armed QB in college anywhere near that of Flacco. I think it was definitely a major adjustment running with the 1st team offense. The whole "Doss outplayed Torrey" argument is technically true, but like Ravor said, he always had an ability to get open, that probably had to impress the coaching staff enough to play him.




  9. #114

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Second, Torrey was in line to be the 3rd WR. And you "hop in the time machine", we ran quite a bit of 3 WR sets in the first 2 games last year. So yes, Torrey would have played quite a bit...unless you are one of those people who feel as though if you aren't starting or on the field 70% of the time you are barely playing.

    And as for the 5th best WR on the team stuff...that is the fans opinion.
    if we played so many 3 WR sets why didnt he have a single contribution until his first start in the 3rd game? You can say it was fan driven, and that he was the 3rd WR because he was the one that went in when Evans went down, but my point was its not a ridiculous statement to say there wasnt a definite role for Torrey until that injury. the second game he didnt even play a snap, despite that youre saying we played a considerable amount of 3 WR sets. I think the plan last year from preseason and into the season was always to run more two TE sets. meaning there wasnt suppose to be much of a role for any 3rd WR, not just smith.

    The fact is that the team has as much of a shitty record with young WR's as they do with vets they bring in. So saying one is definitely better than the other is not based on any facts.
    Its been obvious over the last few years we were looking for a speed/deep threat. Clayton, D Will, Stallworth, Evans, Smith... We lucked out with Smith, but its pretty clear what we were trying to do with evans and stallworth (save money off the scrap heap). Were we more or less successful in younger vs older? considering all of them, no theres not a definitive answer. I do agree that had Evans not been injured, he would have had similar success as Torrey than had, if not better. Its a shame he looked so promising and the season ended the way it did.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 08-22-2012 at 11:48 AM.
    -JAB




  10. #115
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    The fact is that the team has as much of a shitty record with young WR's as they do with vets they bring in. So saying one is definitely better than the other is not based on any facts.
    I can roll with that. I think that some of the playoff shortcomings by the veteran acquisitions (Cundiff, Evans, Houshmanzadeh) and the quality play of some of the rookies (Jimmy Smith and Torrey Smith), has led some to want to see the younger players. However, history has shown that Jimmy and Torrey are the exception. So, I can see both sides of the issue.

    I just think that the team is more well balanced and established at QB now. I think it makes a difference. Could you imagine Torrey catching passes from Boller or Wright?
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #116

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    I feel good about the Jacoby Jones addition simply because most of you oppose it LOL. I find it funny that over the past two years the Ravens brought in Houshmanzadeh and Evans who were suppose to be reliable options but proved to be the opposite in the playoffs. Most of us were excited because we thought these guys would push us over the top and now people have the opposite feeling about Jones which I understand. I have a funny feeling that the guy most people think will fail come playoff time (Jones) will actually end up pushing us over the top, strange things happen like that sometimes.




  12. #117
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    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarRay52 View Post
    I feel good about the Jacoby Jones addition simply because most of you oppose it LOL. I find it funny that over the past two years the Ravens brought in Houshmanzadeh and Evans who were suppose to be reliable options but proved to be the opposite in the playoffs. Most of us were excited because we thought these guys would push us over the top and now people have the opposite feeling about Jones which I understand. I have a funny feeling that the guy most people think will fail come playoff time (Jones) will actually end up pushing us over the top, strange things happen like that sometimes.
    I don't know what I'd do if that happened.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  13. #118

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by SugarRay52 View Post
    I have a funny feeling that the guy most people think will fail come playoff time (Jones) will actually end up pushing us over the top, strange things happen like that sometimes.
    ill hope for that as well.
    -JAB




  14. #119

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I don't know what I'd do if that happened.
    It would be a lot to take considering Jones' history but it seems like when we expect the best from a WR (Evans, Houshmanzadeh) they let us down. When we expect the worst (Torrey Smith last preseason) they surprise us. Hopefully Jones shocks us and we get the best in the end.




  15. #120

    Re: Is there any possibility that Jacoby Jones is not the third WR come week 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    I can roll with that. I think that some of the playoff shortcomings by the veteran acquisitions (Cundiff, Evans, Houshmanzadeh) and the quality play of some of the rookies (Jimmy Smith and Torrey Smith), has led some to want to see the younger players. However, history has shown that Jimmy and Torrey are the exception. So, I can see both sides of the issue.

    I just think that the team is more well balanced and established at QB now. I think it makes a difference. Could you imagine Torrey catching passes from Boller or Wright?
    I understand that.

    I just think people should temper their expectations for the young guys and also not be so quick to throw dirt on an incoming vet.

    It balances out...other than Mason and to a lesser extent...Boldin, Ozzie's track record with vet WR's isn't either (who remembers Kevin Johnson?).

    We haven't started the season yet...I initially thought when we signed Jones that while he would get a lot of snaps in the 3 wide, Doss would really battle with him for that 3rd spot. Unfortunately, Tandon has been hit with the injury bug this camp so we never really got a chance to have him compete. But who knows when the season starts...I'd love for Doss to take some snaps away and I think it's obvious that Laquan is forcing himself to get in there too.

    Let's see how this thing plays out.




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