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  1. #49

    Re: Williams turns down contract



    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Are people here actually knocking him for turning down that contract?
    That "offer" was a clear indication they really have no interest in keeping him, and were hoping he would cave like a lot of NFL players do and take a ridiculously under market deal.

    They probably said "might as well try!" knowing damn well he would have to be a fool to accept it. I mean if it was close to market it would be different, and he might have a decision...but that? Probably took his agent about .0001 seconds to thanks but no thanks.

    I was going to write an article and research the recent cb contracts, but unfortunately my hard drive crashed and I am stuck with a phone only indefinitely. But I can say with certainty that was not a really serious offer, and while I don't know who his agent is or what relationship he has with the Ravens, it could easily be looked at in a very negative light from Cary's side.

    Now we know why there weren't really any ongoing negotiations, because that isn't even a starting point. No agent is going to waste their time when he wants probably 30-35 million, and they offer 15. No point in even going any further.

    I wish Cary the best in 2013 and beyond with his new team, I mean we pretty much already knew that with the drafting of Smith but this just about seals the deal.




  2. #50

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by jd345 View Post
    Just to compare...and I know we are comparing apples to oranges in as far as positions...but Rice just got 5 years with 35 million with 15 million guaranteed (if I am not mistaken...and with escalators up to 40 million). Williams might make his money on the open market but I think comparing him to Rice and money spent as far as the cap hit puts his worth to us in perspective. I like Carey...he is a good work hard and you can make it story...but he is overvalueing his worth in my opinion...at least with the Ravens.
    You can't compare players at two different position when talking about contracts. The RB market has been devalued, while CBs - even marginal one - make good money.

    If Carey plays as well as he did last year, someone will easily pay him more than 3 years/$15M.
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  3. #51

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    That "offer" was a clear indication they really have no interest in keeping him, and were hoping he would cave like a lot of NFL players do and take a ridiculously under market deal.
    Sorry, but that really doesn't make much sense. If they had "no interest in keeping him", they would have never made an offer.

    While I can understand Cary turning the offer down, I don't think it was a bad offer either. He's one year from being a UFA and he's only been a starter for 1 year. An offer of $5M/year isn't a bad offer in those circumstances.

    Because it was only 3-years though, it likely didn't contain a lot of guaranteed money and less than a deal with more years. That's probably why Williams declined it.

    It's the classic dynamic of signing an extension before your FA year - if you sign early, you are likely giving up some money for immediate security. In this case, Williams opted for playing for a bigger deal next year. While this one is more public, a lot of players make the same choice, we just don't hear about it that often.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  4. #52

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    You can't compare players at two different position when talking about contracts. The RB market has been devalued, while CBs - even marginal one - make good money.

    If Carey plays as well as he did last year, someone will easily pay him more than 3 years/$15M.
    I agree totally with what you are saying...and I like Williams...he is a great story and played well for us last year...But you have to look at him from a cap value standpoint. Does he have the same worth to us as Ray Rice (don't look at positions, look at money spent in regards to the cap)? I would argue no. Could he make that kind of money somewhere else...possibly. We have x amount of dollars to spend on our team. Carey will not be in our plans (and shouldn't be) if he wants more than what we offered him. I would not want to spend nearly the same amount of cap space on a cb #3 on this team as a rb that is top 5 in the league. I wish Williams well (and before he goes I hope he plays his ass off this year and ups his value even more)...but he should have taken that contract (in my humble opinion). GO RAVENS!




  5. #53
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    No, I think the money you are talking about is nuts. He's NOT a 30Mil CB.
    It's not about what he is. It's about what he'll get on the open market and, yes, he will get that on the open market.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #54
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Well, it appears that he's being lit up in preseason. Now, I don't know how much of that is the safeties blowing assignments for helping him out, but to the naked eye, it looks like he isn't doing well.
    First off, that is what preseason is for. There are plenty of good players who don't look as good this preseason. Second, he is still knocking off rust from the injury. Players always talk about how they are both physically and mentally over an injury, but it takes a little longer than they will tell you.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #55

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    . Cary deserves a good deal, he worked his ass off and played great last season that alone will land him top CB money, hell mediocre corners these days are making top money Cary is better than average.
    Played great? Really? I can maybe buy the "better than average" argument, but great??? Not even close.

    Personally, I'd wait another year before I even firmly stamp him with the better than average label. Some stupid team with a braindead front office like WAS, JAX, TB, or DAL will give him $9 million/year in this upcoming and wind up cutting him in a year or two when they realize he is a $5 million/year player after all. There is no rationale in assigning Cary Williams 1/13th of your total team cap space. 1/25th, yes, but not 1/13th.




  8. #56

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    First off, that is what preseason is for. There are plenty of good players who don't look as good this preseason. Second, he is still knocking off rust from the injury. Players always talk about how they are both physically and mentally over an injury, but it takes a little longer than they will tell you.

    i have been saying this all along I watched both games twice and saw only once where he was actually beat the other times he had trouble moving to get to the ball. That shows he is about 80-85%. He has his speed just not the hip movement to get to the ball. but he has 3 weeks.




  9. #57

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    That "offer" was a clear indication they really have no interest in keeping him, and were hoping he would cave like a lot of NFL players do and take a ridiculously under market deal.

    They probably said "might as well try!" knowing damn well he would have to be a fool to accept it. I mean if it was close to market it would be different, and he might have a decision...but that? Probably took his agent about .0001 seconds to thanks but no thanks.

    I was going to write an article and research the recent cb contracts, but unfortunately my hard drive crashed and I am stuck with a phone only indefinitely. But I can say with certainty that was not a really serious offer, and while I don't know who his agent is or what relationship he has with the Ravens, it could easily be looked at in a very negative light from Cary's side.

    Now we know why there weren't really any ongoing negotiations, because that isn't even a starting point. No agent is going to waste their time when he wants probably 30-35 million, and they offer 15. No point in even going any further.

    I wish Cary the best in 2013 and beyond with his new team, I mean we pretty much already knew that with the drafting of Smith but this just about seals the deal.
    You're ignoring the clear fact that he will never see all of that 30-35 million he gets from another franchise. Again, just because he gets $40 million, doesn't mean that he will see anywhere near that. Nobody is going to pay a 32 year old CB with very limited ball skills $9 million/year. That's what Williams is facing at the back end of his next contract, assuming he ever gets offered it.

    You always seem to overstate the amount that people are due to get in free agency. You stated that Marshall Yanda took a way below market value deal to stay with the Ravens last offseason. In reality, he took more guaranteed money and with more reasonable salary intervals, increased the odds that he sees all of the money offered him in that contract.

    Cary Williams might, if everything bounces his way, get a contract in free agency that guarantees him $16-$20 million. The contract he turned down with the Ravens wasn't a whole lot less than that in terms of guaranteed money. The risk of POTENTIALLY getting a few more guaranteed dollars at the end of the year is not worth the gamble of ASSUREDLY getting a little less just by signing on a dotted line. A line that was made available to him. There is no guarantee that any NFL team will ever offer him that opportunity again. It's a horrendous gamble in a sport where a player can go from starter on a Top 4 team to out of the league in one season.

    For Cary's sake, let's hope that the Ravens find some form of pass rush, because in the games last year where Suggs wasn't in full fledged beast mode in terms of harrassing QBs, Cary looked pretty darn mediocre.




  10. #58
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    The odds of Cary Williams getting a contract like Brandon Carr received from Dallas is microscopic.

    #1 - Carr is nearly 4 years younger than Cary.
    #2 - Carr has been a multi-year starter.
    #3 - Carr has 40 passes defensed and 5 interceptions over the past two years. He's also a pretty good tackler.

    I think Cary is going to find that the market for him is going to be a little closer to Ron Bartell and Jason Allen. Both are good players, not great, but above average. Both are capable starters, both are bigger (Bartell is 6'2" and Allen is 6'1"), but neither really have that "special" characteristic that puts their ability over the top. I'd probably put Cary Williams in this bracket.

    Bartell got a 1 year $3million deal from Oakland and Allen signed with the Bengals for $8.2 million over 2 years.

    So, $5mill per year may not be too far off the mark for Cary Williams. I think Ravor listed the obvious reasons why he declined the offer. Not enough years and likely not enough guaranteed money.
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  11. #59
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    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Josh Wilson (though smaller) is a better overall cornerback and player than Cary Williams (IMO) and he's also about 2-3 years younger than Cary. The deal he signed last year with the Redskins was a 3 year, $13.5 million deal with $9 guaranteed.

    Again...for that 2nd tier cornerback bracket, it doesn't seem too off the mark for the value of the deal.
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  12. #60

    Re: Williams turns down contract

    Quote Originally Posted by jd345 View Post
    I agree totally with what you are saying...and I like Williams...he is a great story and played well for us last year...But you have to look at him from a cap value standpoint. Does he have the same worth to us as Ray Rice (don't look at positions, look at money spent in regards to the cap)? I would argue no.
    Teams don't compare the contracts of players at different position on their own team because different position already have different value based on other contracts given out to players at those positions. It's the value of the position that sets the price, not the importance of the player to his team.

    The simple fact of the matter at this point is that top RBs are no longer paid as well as top CBs.

    While I certainly understand that Ray Rice is more valuable to the Ravens than Cary Williams, that's really not part of the team's thinking when it comes to access contract values.

    What they do compare their players with are other players on other teams at the same position. That's where the market value for the position is established. The fact that that may mean that the player makes more than a player who is more vital to the team is just the nature of the beast.

    All that said, I don't see the Ravens paying Cary Williams more than they've paid Ray Rice, but only because I don't think Cary Williams will be worth that much to them, especially with Jimmy Smith on the team. That said, if he plays as well as he did last year, some team will pay him that much, IMO.
    Last edited by B-more Ravor; 08-21-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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