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  1. #76
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    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster



    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I'd like to trade up to the early teens. I'd trade our first two picks for a legit LT.
    But consider the risks involved with a decision like that.

    Sure, they get a crack at a top rated LT prospect...but it's still a fairly substantial risk. Who knows if that LT will pan out or not. Look at Jason Smith in St. Louis. 2nd overall pick as a LT prospect.

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  2. #77

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    b
    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    But consider the risks involved with a decision like that.

    Sure, they get a crack at a top rated LT prospect...but it's still a fairly substantial risk. Who knows if that LT will pan out or not. Look at Jason Smith in St. Louis. 2nd overall pick as a LT prospect.

    Sometimes the devil you know is a better situation than the devil you don't.
    All picks are risks. Look at any number of draft busts at every single position.
    I think our OL is the biggest weakness on the roster(with a healthy Suggs0 and I think basically every top LT was picked in the top 15 overall of their respective draft. The risk/reward of such a move is acceptable to me.




  3. #78

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    b

    All picks are risks. Look at any number of draft busts at every single position.
    I think our OL is the biggest weakness on the roster(with a healthy Suggs0 and I think basically every top LT was picked in the top 15 overall of their respective draft. The risk/reward of such a move is acceptable to me.
    I agree that LT should be a priority, but I don't agree with this.

    Off the top of my head...Peters was undrafted, Duane Brown was a late 1st, Whitworth was a 2nd, Roos was a 2nd. I'm sure there are more.

    You can find good LT's later in the top rounds.




  4. #79
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    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I agree that LT should be a priority, but I don't agree with this.

    Off the top of my head...Peters was undrafted, Duane Brown was a late 1st, Whitworth was a 2nd, Roos was a 2nd. I'm sure there are more.

    You can find good LT's later in the top rounds.

    They are few and far between, but this is true. You can find and develop quality LT's outside of the top 15.
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  5. #80

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I agree that LT should be a priority, but I don't agree with this.

    Off the top of my head...Peters was undrafted, Duane Brown was a late 1st, Whitworth was a 2nd, Roos was a 2nd. I'm sure there are more.


    Funny to me, is that you listed, IMO the most overrated LT's in football, as in ever single one of them.
    You can find good LT's later in the top rounds.

    Gaither was 5th supplemental, Donald Penn UDFA, Veldheer in the 3rd, Joe Staley late first... yet despite my addition, we still haven't named probably 70% of the players I would consider better then average(top 15).


    It's like saying you can find a HOF QB late because of Brady and Romo... sure you can, but mathematically, it's a BADDD way to go about it. Top end Tackles are almost never worse then solid-great guards(Robert Gallery) when everythign shakes out. Busts at other positions many times are out of football ina few years.

    I would argue that LT is the LOWEST RISK of all high level picks, and also that it is a position that subscribes to the "planet theory" in that theere are only a set ammount of people on the planet that have the size and skillset to play the position at a high level. Traditionally this means "most" of the LT prospects are gone by the teens, early 20's overall.

    Sure we could luck into another Jared Gaither, but I think I'd rather devote solid assets to make the scenario more likely. And maybe, jsut maybe, he wouldn't have a flawed character and wouldn't need to be driven from the team.




  6. #81

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    I dont believe signing released players count towards compensatory picks which excludes Jones, Painter or Mcbean....someone please correct me if im wrong.




  7. #82

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    I dont believe signing released players count towards compensatory picks which excludes Jones, Painter or Mcbean....someone please correct me if im wrong.
    If you are correct that all three were released, you are correct that they don't count. Just like us cutting Chris Carr makes him not count.




  8. #83
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    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey View Post
    I dont believe signing released players count towards compensatory picks which excludes Jones, Painter or Mcbean....someone please correct me if im wrong.
    You are correct that signing street free agents (guys who had been released) don't factor in the compensatory pick equation. However, I don't think McBean was released. McBean had been offered a contract by Denver, but then they pulled it after the impending suspension came to light. But I think he was technically still under contract and not released when the Ravens signed him.




  9. #84

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Gaither was 5th supplemental, Donald Penn UDFA, Veldheer in the 3rd, Joe Staley late first... yet despite my addition, we still haven't named probably 70% of the players I would consider better then average(top 15).


    It's like saying you can find a HOF QB late because of Brady and Romo... sure you can, but mathematically, it's a BADDD way to go about it. Top end Tackles are almost never worse then solid-great guards(Robert Gallery) when everythign shakes out. Busts at other positions many times are out of football ina few years.

    I would argue that LT is the LOWEST RISK of all high level picks, and also that it is a position that subscribes to the "planet theory" in that theere are only a set ammount of people on the planet that have the size and skillset to play the position at a high level. Traditionally this means "most" of the LT prospects are gone by the teens, early 20's overall.

    Sure we could luck into another Jared Gaither, but I think I'd rather devote solid assets to make the scenario more likely. And maybe, jsut maybe, he wouldn't have a flawed character and wouldn't need to be driven from the team.
    Ok, list your top 15 OT's and I can go from there.

    And Gaither is hardly the only player...I just named 4, and you apparently consider Gaither in that group. That's 5 out of the 15. Penn, Valdheer and Staley makes it 8 of the top 15. Over half.




  10. #85

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    You are correct that signing street free agents (guys who had been released) don't factor in the compensatory pick equation. However, I don't think McBean was released. McBean had been offered a contract by Denver, but then they pulled it after the impending suspension came to light. But I think he was technically still under contract and not released when the Ravens signed him.
    Yea they tendered him then pulled the tender, same as a release




  11. #86

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Ok, list your top 15 OT's and I can go from there.

    And Gaither is hardly the only player...I just named 4, and you apparently consider Gaither in that group. That's 5 out of the 15. Penn, Valdheer and Staley makes it 8 of the top 15. Over half.
    Joe thomas
    Jake Long
    Ryan Clady
    Joe Staley*
    Jordan gross
    D'Brickashaw Ferguson
    Jared Gaither*
    Jared veldheer*
    Jason Peters*
    Russell Okung
    Bryant McKinnie
    Michael Roos*
    Donald Penn*
    Tyron Smith
    Matt Kalil

    That's 15, the sad part is how hard it was to even come up with 15 acceptable Lt's 2 included, are projections, but Smith was damn good at RT last year, and Kalil, to me, is a gimme. He'll be top 5 after this year, at worst. A few others liek Eugene Monroe and Trent Williams would be in that next group with Whitworth, Marshall Newhouse, Will Beatty, followed by the Brandon Albert's, Duane Brown, Roger Saffold and Michael Oher's of the world. That'sa 2/3rds top 15, Another pair by the first coupel picks of the second round and some that came from nowhere.
    Last edited by jonboy79; 08-16-2012 at 03:41 PM.




  12. #87
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    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    I'd like to trade up to the early teens. I'd trade our first two picks for a legit LT.
    You might but Oz wouldn't IMO. In today's NFL I don't think many teams would.
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  13. #88
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    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    You'd take Penn and Staley over Whitworth?




  14. #89

    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef View Post
    You'd take Penn and Staley over Whitworth?
    Heck yeah, he's a one year wonder and I didn't think his one year was that wonder-ful.




  15. #90
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    Re: Osemele will start opening game, McKinnie in danger to make roster

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Heck yeah, he's a one year wonder and I didn't think his one year was that wonder-ful.
    Whitworth has been solidly good the last three years and is a pretty consistent player. Staley has barely ever been average and Penn... he's inconsistent, and two of the last three seasons he was gash... such an overrated player.




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