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  1. #31

    Re: McKinnie back at LT



    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    KO and Williams are not competing.

    KO was only there yesterday because they were giving Bobbie Williams some rest due to his ankle swelling up (he will be resting today too). By all accounts, the team is more than happy with Williams there and pretty much is set as the starter
    Bobbie Williams has only been at Guard due to the charade of a "competition" at tackle with McKinnie in Harb's dog house.

    If that whole situation had not happened, you would have seen KO at LG from the beginning of camp. Bobbie Williams was brought in for depth, and as an insurance policy if KO was not looking good and needed time to develop.

    Obviously with KO's play so far that is not the case, hence he will be starting at LG IMO.

    Funny how Bobbie Williams came up with a "sore ankle" after he got beat like a drum and the McKinnie situation has died down.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    Are you really comfortable with a 36 year old Matt Birk beside a 35 year old Bobbie Williams on the inside? I'm not, and I hope the Ravens aren't either. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

    KO is the future, BW is not. Get KO in there and let him progress as the season goes on, he will get better. It isn't like we are asking him to play Lt with no help as a rookie, it is an interior line position. A position that a rookie can easily come in and handle, especially if all the reports of his play at a much harder position on the edge are accurate.

    Either way I trust the coaches, they will make the best choice.




  2. #32
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    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Interesting argument......
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  3. #33

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Bobbie Williams has only been at Guard due to the charade of a "competition" at tackle with McKinnie in Harb's dog house.

    If that whole situation had not happened, you would have seen KO at LG from the beginning of camp. Bobbie Williams was brought in for depth, and as an insurance policy if KO was not looking good and needed time to develop.

    Obviously with KO's play so far that is not the case, hence he will be starting at LG IMO.

    Funny how Bobbie Williams came up with a "sore ankle" after he got beat like a drum and the McKinnie situation has died down.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    Are you really comfortable with a 36 year old Matt Birk beside a 35 year old Bobbie Williams on the inside? I'm not, and I hope the Ravens aren't either. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

    KO is the future, BW is not. Get KO in there and let him progress as the season goes on, he will get better. It isn't like we are asking him to play Lt with no help as a rookie, it is an interior line position. A position that a rookie can easily come in and handle, especially if all the reports of his play at a much harder position on the edge are accurate.

    Either way I trust the coaches, they will make the best choice.
    Bobbie Williams was brought in for security, not depth...there is a big difference.

    And Williams has been on record before camp that his ankles, while they felt good at the time, would never be 100%...he has had ankle problems for the last 5-6 years...including what knocked him out late last year. Is it really unreasonable to think that a 36 year old 330 lb lineman might have an ankle that was broken 9 months ago would have some swelling and need some rest after 3 weeks of training camp? And I don't think he got "beaten like a drum, he didn't get beat physically in that Atlanta game...there were communication issues with a rookie, raw center starting his first game on the road.

    And yes, I am comfortable with Williams and Birk, Birk is clearly better than Gino right now and Bobbie is better than KO right now. If KO shows during the year that he needs PT and Williams struggles, make the switch. But there is no reason to rush it, and the team isn't going to rush it.




  4. #34

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Good news, we need all the OL we can get.....
    Way Down South in New Orleans




  5. #35
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    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    KO and Williams are not competing.

    KO was only there yesterday because they were giving Bobbie Williams some rest due to his ankle swelling up (he will be resting today too). By all accounts, the team is more than happy with Williams there and pretty much is set as the starter
    Alright, here's a vet (BW) who's almost 36, and already has (according to you) "his ankle swelling up." KO is 23, versatile, 6' 3" 335 lbs. You and I are on opposite side of the same page... Bc




  6. #36

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Bobbie Williams was brought in for security, not depth...there is a big difference.

    And Williams has been on record before camp that his ankles, while they felt good at the time, would never be 100%...he has had ankle problems for the last 5-6 years...including what knocked him out late last year. Is it really unreasonable to think that a 36 year old 330 lb lineman might have an ankle that was broken 9 months ago would have some swelling and need some rest after 3 weeks of training camp? And I don't think he got "beaten like a drum, he didn't get beat physically in that Atlanta game...there were communication issues with a rookie, raw center starting his first game on the road.

    And yes, I am comfortable with Williams and Birk, Birk is clearly better than Gino right now and Bobbie is better than KO right now. If KO shows during the year that he needs PT and Williams struggles, make the switch. But there is no reason to rush it, and the team isn't going to rush it.
    if you think its reasonable to have swelling in an ankle that was broken 9 months ago, which id agree with, its also reasonable to think a guy that still has issues and has had issues for 5-6 years will again have issues leaving us with KO at some point regardless. I really think if they do go with Williams, he ends up being replaced anyway. Thats no knock on him just that we cant wait for the future if the future is already here. KO has been one of our more impressive rookies, if its equal, he wins because hes on an upward trajectory and only going to get better vs williams whos just fighting father time on a downward one.

    I do think most of what you saw wasnt necessarily his fault however. He looked worse than he actually is, but that doesnt mean hes better than KO either.
    -JAB




  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post

    Alright, here's a vet (BW) who's almost 36, and already has (according to you) "his ankle swelling up." KO is 23, versatile, 6' 3" 335 lbs. You and I are on opposite side of the same page... Bc
    *cough*6'6"*cough*


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  8. #38

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    I'm not debating that Williams may go down later in the year. History suggests that.

    I am not however willing to give up a starting spot based on the likelyhood of a future injury.

    There will be injuries on the line. That is not debatable. KO likely will be the first guy off the bench and showing that he can handle multiple spots is a huge plus.

    If Bobbie Williams is better than KO 'right now' at OG, how is that holding the team back?

    The fact is that it doesn't hold the team back one iota. Just as there is something to be said for youth, there is something to be said for experience and a proven track record.




  9. #39

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I'm not debating that Williams may go down later in the year. History suggests that.

    I am not however willing to give up a starting spot based on the likelyhood of a future injury.

    There will be injuries on the line. That is not debatable. KO likely will be the first guy off the bench and showing that he can handle multiple spots is a huge plus.

    If Bobbie Williams is better than KO 'right now' at OG, how is that holding the team back?

    The fact is that it doesn't hold the team back one iota. Just as there is something to be said for youth, there is something to be said for experience and a proven track record.
    well i think youre right in that the better player will play, which if Williams ends up being that to start the season so be it. The question lies if its equal. you go with youth and upside or vet experience. KO is proving to be more than capable of starting there so what drives that decision for Harbs. Experience might be the winner at first and give you the stronger line week 1, but by not letting KO on the field you may have a worse line at the end of the year than you could have by plugging KO in at the beginning and getting him the experience hes lacking.
    -JAB




  10. #40
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    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I'm not debating that Williams may go down later in the year. History suggests that.

    I am not however willing to give up a starting spot based on the likelyhood of a future injury.

    There will be injuries on the line. That is not debatable. KO likely will be the first guy off the bench and showing that he can handle multiple spots is a huge plus.

    If Bobbie Williams is better than KO 'right now' at OG, how is that holding the team back?

    The fact is that it doesn't hold the team back one iota. Just as there is something to be said for youth, there is something to be said for experience and a proven track record.
    IMO OK is not the 1st guy off the bench, but one of the best 5 Olinemen right now ! Remember Yanda's early work? Yes, let's have 3 older vets (McKinnie, B. Williams, Birk) manning the left side. See what happens mid/later in the the schedule or in the playoffs. Guys like OK (and IMO Boren) will punch out the opposing defenses come December/January... Bc




  11. #41

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    well i think youre right in that the better player will play, which if Williams ends up being that to start the season so be it. The question lies if its equal. you go with youth and upside or vet experience. KO is proving to be more than capable of starting there so what drives that decision for Harbs. Experience might be the winner at first and give you the stronger line week 1, but by not letting KO on the field you may have a worse line at the end of the year than you could have by plugging KO in at the beginning and getting him the experience hes lacking.
    Coaches always go with experience if all things are equal. Fewer blown assignments, fewer penalties, better communication in general.

    That's just how it is.




  12. #42

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Bobbie Williams has only been at Guard due to the charade of a "competition" at tackle with McKinnie in Harb's dog house.
    Gotta disagree. You don't give give a $800K bonus and a $925K base salary (for 2012) to a guy you expect to be a back-up. That is the kind of money you give to an older veteran that you - at least - expect to compete for the starting job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    KO and Williams are not competing.

    KO was only there yesterday because they were giving Bobbie Williams some rest due to his ankle swelling up (he will be resting today too). By all accounts, the team is more than happy with Williams there and pretty much is set as the starter
    Exactly. Williams was signed to start - or, at the very least, be the starting at the beginning of the year. If KO passes him later on, then I'm sure they would be fine with that.

    Plus, I'm not really sure how anyone can say that KO is better than Williams at G right now, when KO hasn't been playing that - save, yesterday - during TC?
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  13. #43

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Coaches always go with experience if all things are equal. Fewer blown assignments, fewer penalties, better communication in general.

    That's just how it is.
    and at what point is that to the detriment of the team in the long run? thats really what were debating here.

    i could easily see both scenarios, i dont think theres one that doesnt end with KO starting this year. One he has more games under his belt than the other, and assuming were a playoff team, itll be best to get as many games as he can under his belt.
    -JAB




  14. #44

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    IMO OK is not the 1st guy off the bench, but one of the best 5 Olinemen right now ! Remember Yanda's early work? Yes, let's have 3 older vets (McKinnie, B. Williams, Birk) manning the left side. See what happens mid/later in the the schedule or in the playoffs. Guys like OK (and IMO Boren) will punch out the opposing defenses come December/January... Bc
    You, nor I or anyone else is really qualified to say KO is one of the 5 best. How many practices or games have you watched with KO? The coaches are going with the 5 best they see everyday (as they have said) and since Williams was signed, even back in OTA's, Williams has run with the 1st team.

    You can say that KO will give you an extra push...the team could think they would blow assignments or wear down due to hitting the rookie wall (which many rookies who start off well in OTA's and camps do...we saw that with Pernell Mcphee last year).




  15. #45

    Re: McKinnie back at LT

    The good thing about McKinnie's issues (and Reid's injury) is that it did allow them to get a look at KO at RT and by all reports he played very well, which gives them more options going forward.

    If McKinnie reports on time and/or Reid/Harwood are healthy, they may never have moved KO from G and gotten such a thorough look at KO at RT.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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