Starting Kicker Competition -- Tucker v. Cundiff (Merged)

[Baltimoreboy]

Allen took the Skins to the SB trading most of his draft pics for vets. He disdained rookies

A quick check shows he kept the vet Curt Knight.
The next 3 years his percentage of makes was 59.2%,46.7%,52.4%
The next 3 years with Mark Moseley
60%,64%,64.7%
Not that great.

I remember back in 70/71 when the Colts won SB 5 vs Dallas.
I still have a clipping from the paper showing rookie Jim O'Brien's game winning 32 yd FG with a few seconds left.
And yes I cussed him early in the game when he missed a PAT earlier but he came thru in the clutch.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

A quick check shows he kept the vet Curt Knight.
The next 3 years his percentage of makes was 59.2%,46.7%,52.4%
The next 3 years with Mark Moseley
60%,64%,64.7%
Not that great.

I remember back in 70/71 when the Colts won SB 5 vs Dallas.
I still have a clipping from the paper showing rookie Jim O'Brien's game winning 32 yd FG with a few seconds left.
And yes I cussed him early in the game when he missed a PAT earlier but he came thru in the clutch.

You can't really compare kickers from the 70's to what we have now.

You expect your kicker to make as close to or better than 90% of his kicks under 40.

Back then, probably 60-70% was what the best kickers did at that range.

[lobachevsky]

You can't really compare kickers from the 70's to what we have now.

You expect your kicker to make as close to or better than 90% of his kicks under 40.

Moseley (who retired in 1986) was the last (& arguably the best) of the straight-toe placekickers--60% was damn good for that style. I'll bet Knight was straight-toe as well. (Not sure when the soccer-style kickers first appeared in the pros.)

FWIW O'Brien was also a straight-toe kicker. And also FWIW, Steve Myhra's game-tying FG in The Greatest Game Ever Played was no gimme:

He connected on only four of 10 field-goal attempts that season and missed three extra points. Myhra fell short on a 31-yard try early in the championship game and, given another life by a Giants penalty, had his next attempt from 26 yards blocked.

But with only seconds remaining in the fourth quarter and the clock running, he sailed a 20-yarder just inside the left upright to tie the score at 17 and help introduce NFL fans to sudden death.

The Colts' overtime march downfield is the stuff of legend. ... Ameche bulled into the end zone on third-and-goal at the New York 1-yard line to end the methodical 13-play, 80-yard drive during which Myhra watched from the sideline.

"People say, 'Why didn't you kick the field goal?'" said former Colts defensive tackle Art Donovan, in retirement the team's resident funny man. "How the hell do I know?"

Heh. Artie knew, all right. One look at those figures makes it clear that keeping the ball in the offense's hands was the better percentage play.

[Carey]

This isn't really what impresses me. What impresses me is that reports are that the kid never misses.

People don't seem to recall Cundiff's history. There's a reason he's been on four teams in his eleven year career (which included TWO seasons with no job). He's flat out not very good. Take out his amazing 2010 season and he's under 75% for his career. His kickoffs have never been particularly great either. This is a guy who had a complete statistical anomaly year, and very frankly it should be treated as such. He's a bad kicker who realistically shouldn't be on an NFL team if they have another viable option.

I'm not saying this cause he missed that kick in New England. That's part of it, but it's not the reason why. The reason is because he missed 9 other FG attempts last year during the regular season, and two of them were in the 30-39 yard range. Tucker appears to have very interesting promise. I would far rather throw my hat in the ring with this kid than to take another shot on a guy we already know is gonna miss the uprights 25% of the time.

- C -

This, he had one great season and was paid as if he turned the corner but last year before the NE miss he came back down to earth. I think the risk of keeping/overpaying him is starting to outweigh the risk of a udfa kicker.

[wickedsolo]

Well, something else to consider as well, but if McBean does go on IR then that could open up a roster spot for them to potentially carry both Tucker and Cundiff.

[bengtc]

I would trust Gano or Hauschka at this point

[BcRaven]

Well, something else to consider as well, but if McBean does go on IR then that could open up a roster spot for them to potentially carry both Tucker and Cundiff.

Sorry to disagree, wicked, but in today's NFL every roster spot needs a reason.
Teams that have Super Bowl aspirations cannot carry extra players just "in case." Personally, I'd rather keep Tucker, let Billy C. go, and keep an extra player like 3rd string RB (Rainey) or WR (D. Thompson) or LB (N. Carr) or CB (Asa Jackson) or DT (Bryan Hall) on the 53 man roster... Bc

[Paintballguy]

Sorry to disagree, wicked, but in today's NFL every roster spot needs a reason.
Teams that have Super Bowl aspirations cannot carry extra players just "in case." Personally, I'd rather keep Tucker, let Billy C. go, and keep an extra player like 3rd string RB (Rainey) or WR (D. Thompson) or LB (N. Carr) or CB (Asa Jackson) or DT (Bryan Hall) on the 53 man roster... Bc

:word No room for 2 kickers.

[wickedsolo]

Sorry to disagree, wicked, but in today's NFL every roster spot needs a reason.
Teams that have Super Bowl aspirations cannot carry extra players just "in case." Personally, I'd rather keep Tucker, let Billy C. go, and keep an extra player like 3rd string RB (Rainey) or WR (D. Thompson) or LB (N. Carr) or CB (Asa Jackson) or DT (Bryan Hall) on the 53 man roster... Bc

:word No room for 2 kickers.

When they're doing their cut downs they are going to fill out their depth charts 2-3 deep at mostly every position, which will be roughly 40 players. Those last 13 spots go to the guys who performed the best. If they're uneasy about keeping Tucker over Cundiff, but don't want to let Tucker get away then they could very easily carry 2 kickers. They wouldn't be the first (or only) team to do that the past couple of years. Carolina carried John Kasay and Rhys Lloyd for a few years. The Saints carried John Carney and Garrett Hartley. Dallas carried Buehler, Bailey, and Kai Forbath. Now the Bucs have Forbath and they have one of the top kickers in Barth on their team.

I'm just saying, if Tucker is one of the top 10-13 guys fighting for a roster spot and they can comfortably carry him as well as Cundiff, then maybe that's the alternative that they choose.

[JAB1985]

When they're doing their cut downs they are going to fill out their depth charts 2-3 deep at mostly every position, which will be roughly 40 players. Those last 13 spots go to the guys who performed the best. If they're uneasy about keeping Tucker over Cundiff, but don't want to let Tucker get away then they could very easily carry 2 kickers. They wouldn't be the first (or only) team to do that the past couple of years. Carolina carried John Kasay and Rhys Lloyd for a few years. The Saints carried John Carney and Garrett Hartley. Dallas carried Buehler, Bailey, and Kai Forbath. Now the Bucs have Forbath and they have one of the top kickers in Barth on their team.

I'm just saying, if Tucker is one of the top 10-13 guys fighting for a roster spot and they can comfortably carry him as well as Cundiff, then maybe that's the alternative that they choose.

interesting thought, still not sure i agree with its likelihood. I know we carried 2 but that was for a kickoff/long distance specialist when we had an accurate kicker with no leg left. Were/are any of these teams doing that also as an explanation for carrying 2? at the end of the day i feel were just to deep and have other areas of concern than kicker, Either Tucker wins outright (which he should at this point) or we keep cundiff, who they seem content with and try to sign Tucker to PS, more than likely he signs elsewhere though.

[Paintballguy]

When they're doing their cut downs they are going to fill out their depth charts 2-3 deep at mostly every position, which will be roughly 40 players. Those last 13 spots go to the guys who performed the best. If they're uneasy about keeping Tucker over Cundiff, but don't want to let Tucker get away then they could very easily carry 2 kickers. They wouldn't be the first (or only) team to do that the past couple of years. Carolina carried John Kasay and Rhys Lloyd for a few years. The Saints carried John Carney and Garrett Hartley. Dallas carried Buehler, Bailey, and Kai Forbath. Now the Bucs have Forbath and they have one of the top kickers in Barth on their team.

I'm just saying, if Tucker is one of the top 10-13 guys fighting for a roster spot and they can comfortably carry him as well as Cundiff, then maybe that's the alternative that they choose.

We have too many good players to keep 2 kickers. I'd much rather lose Cundiff then lose someone like Bobby Rainey or Deonte Thompson who could potentially be good players.

[B-more Ravor]

FWIW.....

Brian McFarland ‏@RavensSalaryCap
If the Ravens cut Cundiff and keep Tucker, they will save $1.81M in Cap space in 2012. But would have to carry $1.8M in dead $$ on 2013 Cap.

Brian McFarland ‏@RavensSalaryCap
Ravens may not need that $1.81M this year, so if it goes unused, it can be carried into '13 to offset the $1.8M in dead $$ carried over.