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  1. #31
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    Like I said ...

    Some believe the injury is legit, some don't.

    Can we move on? Because nobody is going to change their minds.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #32
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    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    My position, for the record, has always been this:

    The injury was real, but that it, along with some of his other injuries, could have been avoided if he showed more professionalism toward his physical shape and conditioning. Since he did not, we were, never again, going to get the Gaither of 2009. He was going to break down and that is what happened.

    So, in short, the injuries were real, but largely occurred due to his laziness away from the field.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  3. #33

    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Like I said ...

    Some believe the injury is legit, some don't.

    Can we move on? Because nobody is going to change their minds.
    I don't think I'll change JAB's mind, but we do have a certain standard to uphold on this board. I do not want lurkers to think poorly of us.

    I think Excellector pretty much nailed it, though, so I'm done.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  4. #34

    Re: Jared Haynesworth...er, Gaither @ it again

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    What don't you understand about the fact that those two situations are by no means mutually exclusive?

    Start with the premise that if practicing were truly optional, Gaither would always opt out (would rather just play the games). Then tell me why, assuming at one point he was angry at his team and decided not to practice by saying he was hurt, it is not possible that he is currently saying he is hurt because he just doesn't want to practice (would rather just play the games). I don't see how you are concluding the second situation is impossible due to the first.
    thats two different arguments though. one youre saying hes lazy... which is fine and valid by most accounts, the other is saying he was unhappy with playing RT and/or his contract, those are proven wrong because neither are the case currently (hes the starting LT and he just signed his contract). whether the injury is real or fake it doesnt matter in this case. I still think more evidence points to it being real, whether you do or dont is your opinion. i really think youre arguing something im not disagreeing with.
    -JAB




  5. #35

    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    My position, for the record, has always been this:

    The injury was real, but that it, along with some of his other injuries, could have been avoided if he showed more professionalism toward his physical shape and conditioning. Since he did not, we were, never again, going to get the Gaither of 2009. He was going to break down and that is what happened.

    So, in short, the injuries were real, but largely occurred due to his laziness away from the field.
    agreed and you can add that is also why it was time to move on from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    I don't think I'll change JAB's mind, but we do have a certain standard to uphold on this board. I do not want lurkers to think poorly of us.

    I think Excellector pretty much nailed it, though, so I'm done.
    my opinion is the same as excellectors so im not sure what youd want to change if you agree?
    -JAB




  6. #36
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    I'm going to try something new and outside the box.

    I'm applying the three strikes rule.

    Thread will be left open on the assumption it will stay civil (lofty, I know). But if three members wish it trashed, it will go the way of the other 100 or so Gaither threads and sent to the trash heap.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #37
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    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I'm going to try something new and outside the box.

    I'm applying the three strikes rule.

    Thread will be left open on the assumption it will stay civil (lofty, I know). But if three members wish it trashed, it will go the way of the other 100 or so Gaither threads and sent to the trash heap.
    Who would want the thread trashed? The guy is an enigma. We can't get enough of him. Plus, the Ravens haven't played their first preseason game yet.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #38
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    For the record I was being sarcastic. Did not mean to resurrect the idiocy associated with the Gaither saga. My intention was to mock it. Obviously fairly effectively.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Who would want the thread trashed? The guy is an enigma. We can't get enough of him. Plus, the Ravens haven't played their first preseason game yet.
    These Gaither threads have a sorted history on these boards, often devolving into tedious circular arguments or insult-fests.

    Like I said, assuming it stays civil, it stays open.

    You're welcome to peruse the trash heap and see for yourself.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #40

    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    my opinion is the same as excellectors so im not sure what youd want to change if you agree?
    Ok, then I misunderstood you.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    These Gaither threads have a sorted history on these boards, often devolving into tedious circular arguments or insult-fests.

    Like I said, assuming it stays civil, it stays open.
    That's "sordid," you semi-literate buffoon.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  11. #41

    Re: Jared Haynesworth...er, Gaither @ it again

    He is gone from the Ravens - enough said!




  12. #42
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    Autocorrect is a bitch sometimes, festivus.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #43

    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    He was widely derided as a "quack," which implies the doctor either lacks skill or doesn't adhere to the generally accepted standards of practice The "conspiracy" crowd claim that nothing was "really" wrong with Gaither, it was all some sort of elaborate conspiracy, one that Gaither, his agent, and his doctor were all in on. I think the tinfoil hat folks would claim Gaither's doctor was either 1) just plain wrong, or 2) (more likely) lying about the diagnosis for some unknown reason.

    I'm not sure what would lead Dr. Robert Watkins, one of the most respected orthopedic surgeons IN THE WORLD, to diagnose Gaither with a condition he didn't really have. Doctors are wrong sometimes, but Gaither's presentation is completely consistent with the diagnosis he was given and the evidence supports that. But evidence, logic, and reason don't matter to the tinfoil hat crowd. All they want are rumors, feelings, and suppositions.

    Gaither's back is jacked up. It was jacked up then and it's jacked up now. He may have caused it with his poor conditioning, he may have been born with a propensity for a thoracic disc tear, or it may have been a totally freak incident. Or it could be neither of those 3 things or a combination of them. That's something we don't know and can't really know.

    But the bottom line is that if you think Gaither and his people were all engaged in an elaborate conspiracy to avoid practicing, complain about being moved to RT, make a statement about his contract, blah blah blah... you need to take a deep breath and look at a simpler explanation. The simpler explanation is usually the correct one.
    This has already been thoroughly addressed. Needless to say your constant refrain of tin foil hats and conspiracy theories does absolutely positively nothing to undermine the theories/guesses/arguments given. In fact, nothing you mention here even comes close to denting those arguments.

    You act as if Gaither/Rosenhaus are not Watkins' clients (they are)
    You act as if there is some way Watkins' reputation could be hurt by giving the diagnosis he did (how?)
    You act as if this injury was objectively shown in any way (it wasn't, no "tear" shown on scans)
    You act as if many many diagnoses are not just best guesses based on what the patient tells the doctor (they are, and this is crucial)
    You act as if Watkins' diagnosis explained the amount of time Gaither missed (it didn't)

    Tell me why the following could not have occurred:

    Gaither is pissed and doesn't want to play RT or practice. He says his back hurts (or, similarly, his back does hurt a little but he says it really hurts). He tells Rosenhaus. Rosenhaus understands the situation, and his sole priority is keeping Gaither happy lest he get fired. Rosenhaus calls Watkins. Watkins runs tests that show nothing, but also listens to Gaither describe the "pain" he is supposedly feeling. Since not all minor injuries show up on scans, and considering there is NO possible reason why Watkins would ever call his patient/client a liar, Watkins says take two aspirin and rest until it feels better (gives rough timetable of a few weeks). The Ravens similarly run tests that show nothing, and listen to Gaither's complaints. They also, based on Gaither's complaints, conclude he has a minor injury and set up a timetable for his return. Unlike Watkins, the Ravens doctors are beholden to the team not Gaither. Once Gaither started missing time that was way beyond that which such a non-objective minor injury should require, combined with the obvious fact Gaither was pissed and had rep of being lazy, the Ravens cut bait.

    Again, where is an elaborate conspiracy needed?




  14. #44

    Re: Jared Haynesworth...er, Gaither @ it again

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    thats two different arguments though. one youre saying hes lazy... which is fine and valid by most accounts, the other is saying he was unhappy with playing RT and/or his contract, those are proven wrong because neither are the case currently (hes the starting LT and he just signed his contract). whether the injury is real or fake it doesnt matter in this case. I still think more evidence points to it being real, whether you do or dont is your opinion. i really think youre arguing something im not disagreeing with.
    They are two non-conflicting (in fact they are correlated, i.e. common theme is he hates to practice) arguments. And how is the "lazy, hates practice" argument not possibly the current case? And how does it not matter if the injury is real or fake, isn't that what we are discussing or am I missing something?




  15. #45

    Re: OT: Gaither Still hasn't practiced

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    This has already been thoroughly addressed. Needless to say your constant refrain of tin foil hats and conspiracy theories does absolutely positively nothing to undermine the theories/guesses/arguments given. In fact, nothing you mention here even comes close to denting those arguments.

    You act as if Gaither/Rosenhaus are not Watkins' clients (they are)
    You act as if there is some way Watkins' reputation could be hurt by giving the diagnosis he did (how?)
    You act as if this injury was objectively shown in any way (it wasn't, no "tear" shown on scans)
    You act as if many many diagnoses are not just best guesses based on what the patient tells the doctor (they are, and this is crucial)
    You act as if Watkins' diagnosis explained the amount of time Gaither missed (it didn't)

    Tell me why the following could not have occurred:

    Gaither is pissed and doesn't want to play RT or practice. He says his back hurts (or, similarly, his back does hurt a little but he says it really hurts). He tells Rosenhaus. Rosenhaus understands the situation, and his sole priority is keeping Gaither happy lest he get fired. Rosenhaus calls Watkins. Watkins runs tests that show nothing, but also listens to Gaither describe the "pain" he is supposedly feeling. Since not all minor injuries show up on scans, and considering there is NO possible reason why Watkins would ever call his patient/client a liar, Watkins says take two aspirin and rest until it feels better (gives rough timetable of a few weeks). The Ravens similarly run tests that show nothing, and listen to Gaither's complaints. They also, based on Gaither's complaints, conclude he has a minor injury and set up a timetable for his return. Unlike Watkins, the Ravens doctors are beholden to the team not Gaither. Once Gaither started missing time that was way beyond that which such a non-objective minor injury should require, combined with the obvious fact Gaither was pissed and had rep of being lazy, the Ravens cut bait.

    Again, where is an elaborate conspiracy needed?
    I'm not going to tell you why something "could not have happened" because that's not how arguments work. You don't conjure a story out of thin air and then look for evidence why it "couldn't have happened," and that's exactly what you're presuming we do.

    I really am so flabbergasted by your post that I'm not sure how to respond. Your scenario is literally a story, a fairy tale, totally devoid of facts, and there's no way to prove or disprove a non-factual statement.




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