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  1. #31

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?



    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    You really answered your own questions. When your offense differs from those of other quality teams so much, those drops matter a lot more.
    Not in terms of completion percentage (or passing stats), which was the point.




  2. #32

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Great thread...and great viewpoints by all. When you really think about this topic though we have to take our offensive history and history of our teams success into account...I am sure our coaches and front office do. I have been a PSL holder since day 1 and live and die by how our Ravens do. With that said I personally have been very critical of Cam...feel like we have at least most of the pieces in place to make a run at it and for the last four years we have...but in heartbreaking fashion we come up short. With that said we all need to take a step back and look at the success we have had recently even though we haven't won the Super Bowl, in comparison to the rest of the league, we are a very successful franchise. Does it hurt like hell not to win the Super Bowl, you bet...but our philosophy of how football should be played works better than 90% of the other teams in the NFL. Now, we have to ask ourselves, what "tweaks" do we need to get us over the hump. Hopefully, our defense, although slightly aging in respect to the leadership roles (Ray and Ed...other than that we are young) we have to assume "holds tight" (even without Suggs...ouch...). That means what has to be done is a slight improvement to the offense to get us over the hump. A major change where we see Flacco chucking the ball everywhere via Rogers or Brady style would be a paradigm shift in our team philosophy and dangerous in my opinion (this would take a total offense philosophy change effecting blocking schemes...route running...and an overhaul in the playbook in general)...we would be massively changing a system that has got us to 2 AFC championship games and the playoffs in the last 4 years. We have arguably the best fullback and runningback in the league. To not lean on your best position players and the defense in my opinion, for lack of a better word, is "stupid." (Our own players said this last year when we lost lost, when we shouldn't have, and Rice didn't touch the ball nearly enough). Back to the point, what needs to change in our offensive philosophy to get us over the hump? We need a slightly more effective passing game. We do not need the "lets throw it everywhere philosophy that Green Bay and the Patriots use (although effectively). My thinking is we brought in Jones to stretch the field along with Torey. Put Boldin in the slot. Now we have safeties back and corners jamming or playing 10 yards off the ball. Back to my point...lean on your best players. Leach and Rice now have room to roam...bring the safeties in the box...and we burn you with our speed WR speed. We are close...we don't need a total offense philosophy change...look at our success (although it hurts like hell when we get close and lose), what we need is a slightly more balanced offense with speed that keeps opposing defenses on their toes and defensive coordinators up late at night wondering "how in the hell do I stop this offense." Looking forward to the year...we have the pieces in place...they just need to come together and gel...GO RAVENS




  3. #33
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    One poster said on another board years ago, Cam has always been the coach to play a game of not tryna lose versus playing the game to win, they said he's been that way since college coaching days. He's not a bad coach, his system and his way of doing things is just old, he doesn't play to the strength of his unit, but rather constantly tries to fit a square peg in a round hole with little to no success, when teams defensives adjust to this offensive game plan, Cam still tries to stick with the original game plan to no success. Thats why no matter what teams like N.E defenses or the colts defenses (during the manning era) rank they find a way to beat our offense because he just doesn't make those adjustments.




  4. #34
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    One poster said on another board years ago, Cam has always been the coach to play a game of not tryna lose versus playing the game to win, they said he's been that way since college coaching days. He's not a bad coach, his system and his way of doing things is just old, he doesn't play to the strength of his unit, but rather constantly tries to fit a square peg in a round hole with little to no success, when teams defensives adjust to this offensive game plan, Cam still tries to stick with the original game plan to no success. Thats why no matter what teams like N.E defenses or the colts defenses (during the manning era) rank they find a way to beat our offense because he just doesn't make those adjustments.


    That's why come playoff time his offenses always under achieve.




  5. #35

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post


    That's why come playoff time his offenses always under achieve.
    Yep, underachieved putting up 400 yds of offense and (should have been) 27 points on the road in the AFCC game last year.

    NE defense sure found a way to beat us, or did they?




  6. #36
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by jd345 View Post
    Great thread...and great viewpoints by all. When you really think about this topic though we have to take our offensive history and history of our teams success into account...I am sure our coaches and front office do. I have been a PSL holder since day 1 and live and die by how our Ravens do. With that said I personally have been very critical of Cam...feel like we have at least most of the pieces in place to make a run at it and for the last four years we have...but in heartbreaking fashion we come up short. With that said we all need to take a step back and look at the success we have had recently even though we haven't won the Super Bowl, in comparison to the rest of the league, we are a very successful franchise. Does it hurt like hell not to win the Super Bowl, you bet...but our philosophy of how football should be played works better than 90% of the other teams in the NFL. Now, we have to ask ourselves, what "tweaks" do we need to get us over the hump. Hopefully, our defense, although slightly aging in respect to the leadership roles (Ray and Ed...other than that we are young) we have to assume "holds tight" (even without Suggs...ouch...). That means what has to be done is a slight improvement to the offense to get us over the hump. A major change where we see Flacco chucking the ball everywhere via Rogers or Brady style would be a paradigm shift in our team philosophy and dangerous in my opinion (this would take a total offense philosophy change effecting blocking schemes...route running...and an overhaul in the playbook in general)...we would be massively changing a system that has got us to 2 AFC championship games and the playoffs in the last 4 years. We have arguably the best fullback and runningback in the league. To not lean on your best position players and the defense in my opinion, for lack of a better word, is "stupid." (Our own players said this last year when we lost lost, when we shouldn't have, and Rice didn't touch the ball nearly enough). Back to the point, what needs to change in our offensive philosophy to get us over the hump? We need a slightly more effective passing game. We do not need the "lets throw it everywhere philosophy that Green Bay and the Patriots use (although effectively). My thinking is we brought in Jones to stretch the field along with Torey. Put Boldin in the slot. Now we have safeties back and corners jamming or playing 10 yards off the ball. Back to my point...lean on your best players. Leach and Rice now have room to roam...bring the safeties in the box...and we burn you with our speed WR speed. We are close...we don't need a total offense philosophy change...look at our success (although it hurts like hell when we get close and lose), what we need is a slightly more balanced offense with speed that keeps opposing defenses on their toes and defensive coordinators up late at night wondering "how in the hell do I stop this offense." Looking forward to the year...we have the pieces in place...they just need to come together and gel...GO RAVENS
    good post, welcome to the board
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  7. #37

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post


    That's why come playoff time his offenses always under achieve.
    Playing devils advocate here...and for the record I think we could do better than Cam...in the playoffs we do not always underachieve...we have been to the AFC Championship game twice in the last four years...not many teams can lay claim to that kind of success. When we lose that one game...that one game that matters so much in the playoffs...that one game that hurts like hell to lose and ends our season... we as fans tend to overanalyze that singular individual gameplan and rightfully so...we pay for the seats and the players salary and we expect to win. But in hindsight realize that that type of gameplan is what got us to that all important game. After playing a full season and playoff games with that philosophy do we expect our team to come out and execute a gameplan full of plays that we have not run during the regular season...or are implementing right now in training camp? Do we have a separate playbook just for the AFC Championship game so teams can't play to our tendencies? Do we change our offensive philosophy for that one or two games? Our do we just need to be good enough to say...yep...you know our tendiencies...go ahead...try to stop them Once again, playing devils advocate here and can see both sides of the coin. We, behind our computer screens, can say change the gameplan in the last quarter of a playoff game so the opposing defense sees something totally new and unsuspected...only problem is it has not been practiced routinely throughout the year. Other option...keep going with got you to the playoffs the last four years and simply say...you are not beating me today...but have fun trying




  8. #38
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Yep, underachieved putting up 400 yds of offense and (should have been) 27 points on the road in the AFCC game last year.

    NE defense sure found a way to beat us, or did they?
    ne defense sure didn't lose the game either, we took our foot off the gas at points in this game because of Cam's playing it safe because we are on the road, a playoff game, hostile territory, against the games best Qb. Cam's way of thinking is good for the developing and progressing of young Qb from 1-3yrs joe is heading into his 5th season, cam's way of thinking has gotten joe as far as he can get but to take it to the next level Joe needs more than Cam or less of Cam if you know what i mean, i think we will see a difference with Joe's mechanics, decision making and demeanor due to the injection of Caldwell.




  9. #39

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    ne defense sure didn't lose the game either, we took our foot off the gas at points in this game because of Cam's playing it safe because we are on the road, a playoff game, hostile territory, against the games best Qb. Cam's way of thinking is good for the developing and progressing of young Qb from 1-3yrs joe is heading into his 5th season, cam's way of thinking has gotten joe as far as he can get but to take it to the next level Joe needs more than Cam or less of Cam if you know what i mean, i think we will see a difference with Joe's mechanics, decision making and demeanor due to the injection of Caldwell.
    I was about to make a separate post about what you just brought up in the last line of your post. Caldwell, behind the scenes, will be the key to our success...if it happens (fingers crossed). Our offensive philosophy doesn't need to change, we have been highly successful, it just needs "tweaked." Caldwell, after working with Manning for so many years, knows how to develop a QB, or at the very least knows the qualities that an Elite QB posseses. Flacco is, in my opinion, about 75% developed. Caldwell, after working with Manning, knows what an elite QB looks like, the mechanics needed, the demeanor needed, the amount of studying needed, etc...This, hopefully, will be the needed tweak to get us over the hump. We can be assured that we have a QB coach that has worked and seen the best in the game in his prime (hate the Colts...disgusting to admit). In the next two years we should see the "ceiling" of what Flacco has to offer given the gameplan and philosophy we use here in Baltimore (hence the reason we might be waiting on his contract...we want to see where his "ceiling" is). GO RAVENS!




  10. #40
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    I'll believe this when i see it, they said the same thing last season, then invested in a 11mil fullback, we still have those same pieces. I still suspect this to be a run first team, but there will be some differences I see Joe finally taking over the O this season, Cam won't give up full control, but we will see some of Caldwell's influence on Joe.
    I think like someone else has said, we have heard this before only to see Cam go into turtle mode once the season gets started. I do agree with you that Caldwell will have a positive influence on Joe and expect that he will help Joe take more on field control of the offense. I think its important to recognize also that last season was one with many new and younger parts in the receiving corps, no OTA's and as a result I really felt that it took some time to get guys to know were they needed to be, develop timing and just get a grove going offensively through the air. I really do expect that to improve this year and as a result the air attack should be improved.

    Far as Cam is concerned, I think that bringing in Caldwell was in essence sending him a message in addition to helping out Joe. Long time assistant, former HC and not a guy who strikes me of being afraid to call BS when the need arises. I think coach Harbaugh gets a NFL offense, I also think though like any head coach he has a lot on his plate in any given week especially right now. My thought is that Caldwell was also brought in to give John a continuous presence (sort of a proxy) were the offense is concerned and frankly to be that guy who can say to John that the gameplan in a given game needs to be adjusted a little earlier than maybe John or Cam might have done so in the past. Just a thought
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  11. #41

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Yep, underachieved putting up 400 yds of offense and (should have been) 27 points on the road in the AFCC game last year.

    NE defense sure found a way to beat us, or did they?
    Well...

    NE gained an average of 428 yards per game of offense on the year, our defense held them to 330
    NE scored an average of 32.1 points per game on the year, our defense held them to 23
    NE allowed an average of 411 yards per game on defense on the year, we gained 398
    NE allowed an average of 21.4 points per game on defense on the year, we scored 20
    NE committed an average of 1.06 turnovers per game on the year, our defense forced 3
    NE forced an average of 2.13 turnovers per game on the year, our offense committed 1

    So you tell me if and where there was "underachievement."

    Obviously our offense had one of its better games in the AFCCG, but there were still some conservative calls/moments in that game which can be second-guessed considering the stakes and who we were playing (not a low scoring offense and/or stout defense). I would mention them again if they hadn't been mentioned many times over and if doing so wouldn't bring back nauseating memories.




  12. #42
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Well...

    NE gained an average of 428 yards per game of offense on the year, our defense held them to 330
    NE scored an average of 32.1 points per game on the year, our defense held them to 23
    NE allowed an average of 411 yards per game on defense on the year, we gained 398
    NE allowed an average of 21.4 points per game on defense on the year, we scored 20
    NE committed an average of 1.06 turnovers per game on the year, our defense forced 3
    NE forced an average of 2.13 turnovers per game on the year, our offense committed 1

    So you tell me if and where there was "underachievement."

    Obviously our offense had one of its better games in the AFCCG, but there were still some conservative calls/moments in that game which can be second-guessed considering the stakes and who we were playing (not a low scoring offense and/or stout defense). I would mention them again if they hadn't been mentioned many times over and if doing so wouldn't bring back nauseating memories.
    I hear ya. I would not call it underachievement though. Think the offense did enough to win if a few guys executed better. NE played better defensively heading into the playoffs (while I will grant you not great). I do agree that the Offense took the foot off the throat/got conservative at times and hopefully thats something they address.
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  13. #43

    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous1 View Post
    I hear ya. I would not call it underachievement though. Think the offense did enough to win if a few guys executed better. NE played better defensively heading into the playoffs (while I will grant you not great). I do agree that the Offense took the foot off the throat/got conservative at times and hopefully thats something they address.
    Yeah, I wasn't really even saying the offense 'underachieved,' I was just saying that the defense definitively did not underachieve. And I also would say the offense definitively did not overachieve.

    And the term "underachieve' is relative. It relates performance/output to expectations, but if your conservative style tends to consistently lead to production that is lower than your potential (by design) then people lower their expectations and that lowers the 'underachievement' bar. Or said another way, our offense regularly does well/better when the game situation indicates we HAVE to score, so one can reasonably claim we are not always (from opening kickoff to final whistle) trying as hard to score as we possibly could. Obviously, the rationale is that we don't want to make costly mistakes, etc, but that rationale can be taken too far, and I think it often is considering our talent. Personally, I think if Cameron could have been hypnotized or brainwashed into thinking that the entire game (every drive) we were down by 3-4 points with 5 minutes left in the game, we could have scored 35+ points against NE. Obviously that is just unprovable opinion, but I believe it.




  14. #44
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    All I have to say about this continual promise of offense around here is:

    Rory+Breaker_40e87d_3389763.jpg




  15. #45
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    Re: Shift in Offensive Philosophies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Well...

    NE gained an average of 428 yards per game of offense on the year, our defense held them to 330
    NE scored an average of 32.1 points per game on the year, our defense held them to 23
    NE allowed an average of 411 yards per game on defense on the year, we gained 398
    NE allowed an average of 21.4 points per game on defense on the year, we scored 20
    NE committed an average of 1.06 turnovers per game on the year, our defense forced 3
    NE forced an average of 2.13 turnovers per game on the year, our offense committed 1

    So you tell me if and where there was "underachievement."

    Obviously our offense had one of its better games in the AFCCG, but there were still some conservative calls/moments in that game which can be second-guessed considering the stakes and who we were playing (not a low scoring offense and/or stout defense). I would mention them again if they hadn't been mentioned many times over and if doing so wouldn't bring back nauseating memories.
    It looks like our offense playing one of its better games means we got up to the level of the average opponent for the the Pats defense.
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