Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 50
  1. #31

    Re: Penn State Penalties



    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Where I think you (and T) are wrong is you are talking about this punishment as if it was designed to correct the behavior of PSU.

    It is much, much more broad than that. The message to OSU, and to Oregon, and to Ole Miss, and to USC and to Notre Dame and Maryland and Duke and Miami, is that the culture around your football program may not be such that people are hurt because of the paramount sanctity of your football team.

    The message is not just to PSU, and certainly not to Paterno's heirs or the PSU players, but to all the NCAA programs: If you allow people to be sacrificed to protect your team, we will hit you so hard your program will be on its knees.

    *You* may not care that the wins were stripped away, but that's you. If they were my wins, I would care.

    edit:
    Ninja'ed by Shas.

    Anyway. You might read my post and think "If the message was to schools *other* than Penn State, it's not fair to punish Penn State this severely." To which I respond "It was the Penn State community in which janitors could not go to the authorities for fear of losing their jobs; it was the Penn State community in which high ranking administrators could not conduct their own business in their own departments without freedom from interference by Joe Paterno. It was the community and the culture which made this tragedy possible; it needs to change and to heal and this is the beginning of that process. A slap on the wrist would have encouraged a continuing culture of willful ignorance when it comes to problems in or near the football program."
    I dont think were talking about the same thing. Youre talking about the feeling of having those wins taken away, i get that, im saying you cant take them away because they already took place. You cannot rewrite history no matter how much you want it to not be true. Those wins happened and unless theres a time machine and they go back and suspend them beforehand its not going to change that. I have no problem with the punishment in anyway, i just dont think thats an actual punishment, taking the wins away. To me its pointless and is the only thing they did thats retrospective and this should be about moving forward and preventing this kind of thing in the future. things that punish them now and in the future. The wins does neither, imo. i think they still need to do more with the people that are guilty still, including mcqueary who is the only person thats actually witnessed it happen and still did nothing. I dont know how that guys walking around let alone sleeping at night.
    -JAB




  2. #32

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    I am first a foremost a PSU fan. This is a very dark day. The NCAA essentially killed the program for at least 10 to 12 years. PSU will not be able to compete for at least a decade. A one or two year death sentence would have been preferable. The NCAA has essentially gut-punched hundreds of thousands of fans, all the players and recruits, and the new coaching staff - none of who were involved in the wrong-doings. PSU's "culture of football" is not different than scores of other major universities. It's just that four or five a-holes who were high up made an egregiously bad decision and they all need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The NCAA needs to find a way to start punishing the guilty and not the innocent. Meanwhile, schools like Syracuse that have similar ethical issues happening continue on unnoticed.

    This is my opinion and I understand that many will disagree. I think the punishment should have focused more on setting up charitable contributions with football revenue (which they have done to an extent), using the situation for something positive instead of detrimentally affecting those not involved. It's going to be very rough watching most of the roster transfer and our commits moving on.




  3. #33

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Overzealous. Sandusky will get a life sentence, Paterno's heirs will have to deal with distaste of the statue removal etc, and others have lost jobs and face other legal actions. It is flat out wrong to penalize the 2012 PSU players and student body for Sandusky's sins or the actions/inactions by the athletic department/administration.

    NCAA is way out of line.
    If the NCAA followed your logic, they'd never be able to punish any school. Is that what you're advocating?




  4. #34

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by strez View Post
    The NCAA essentially killed the program for at least 10 to 12 years.
    But in the end, it's just football. Letting it become the center of the PSU universe is what set the stage for all of this. Maybe if they put some of that energy into other things for the next decade, the school might be better off.




  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Detroit Michigan
    Posts
    1,908
    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    If the NCAA followed your logic, they'd never be able to punish any school. Is that what you're advocating?
    I don't see that being the necessary logical conclusion at all.

    I do however see the necessary conclusion being that the NCAA retains the right to sanction any University based off of the wrong doing of any individual(s) associated with the program.

    The example of this ruling could really put the NCAA in some precarious positions in the future.
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 07-23-2012 at 05:16 PM.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  6. #36

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    The football program should not be running the athletic department, the university, and maybe the local authorities.

    This was an environment in which three people - two janitors and one assistant coach - *knew* what was going on, and all three chose to go to the football authorities, or remain silent, rather than the traditional authorities.

    The culture was sick, and the culture had to change. At PSU, yes, and maybe elsewhere also. Now they know.

    Isolating the handful of people who actually knew what was happening is missing the point, and would encourage Boards of Trustees everywhere to see no evil and hear no evil and know that as long as they don't know what's going on, it'll be ok.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  7. #37

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    The football program should not be running the athletic department, the university, and maybe the local authorities.

    This was an environment in which three people - two janitors and one assistant coach - *knew* what was going on, and all three chose to go to the football authorities, or remain silent, rather than the traditional authorities.

    The culture was sick, and the culture had to change. At PSU, yes, and maybe elsewhere also. Now they know.

    Isolating the handful of people who actually knew what was happening is missing the point, and would encourage Boards of Trustees everywhere to see no evil and hear no evil and know that as long as they don't know what's going on, it'll be ok.
    But thats just it. Maybe going to the local authorities wouldn't do anything. I'm sure sheriff andy and deputy barney were just as caught up in the JoePa hero worship as anyone else. They blew it off like it was just wrasslin and huggin. But Sandusky was fired from the team even when he seemed to be the heir-apparent. Which makes the whole mess even more fishy. Why dismiss him from the team but still give him access to the facilities?




  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Da Dirty Dena
    Posts
    130

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    14 years ago I traveled to Niagara Falls. Throughout the entire state of PA, I couldn't travel 5 miles without seeing a billboard from PSU with the face of JoPa on it. The University chose to not only make him the face of their football program, but the face of their University!

    As many of you have witnessed, when someone is given power, the power goes to their head.

    JoPa took it upon himself to police his team and maintain the punishments that would befall the accused....even if it should have been done by higher authorities. The University kept quiet and allowed him to do so.

    I've seen reports on the BaltSun about previous athletic directors being told that they may wish to find another position when they brought up their concerns about the issues with his actions. These same statements have been shown on Sportscenter.

    JoPa was at fault..the University was at fault........ Punishment fits the crimes!




  9. #39

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    If the NCAA followed your logic, they'd never be able to punish any school. Is that what you're advocating?
    I didn't state that I advocated anything, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Penalizing the current 2012 PSU football players and student body for decade old errors in judgment by officials who are already being legally sanctioned is wrong. Period. Should you or I be punished for the My Lai Massacre of 1968? There is no logic that I can see for the type far after-the-fact sanction being imposed on PSU. There is good rationale for establishing statutes of limitations in our legal system.

    And the statement that the NCAA would never be able to punish any school is also greatly exaggerated.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    31,857
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I didn't state that I advocated anything, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Penalizing the current 2012 PSU football players and student body for decade old errors in judgment by officials who are already being legally sanctioned is wrong. Period. Should you or I be punished for the My Lai Massacre of 1968? There is no logic that I can see for the type far after-the-fact sanction being imposed on PSU. There is good rationale for establishing statutes of limitations in our legal system.

    And the statement that the NCAA would never be able to punish any school is also greatly exaggerated.

    The students and student athletes are definitely going to feel the brunt of it, but this is also why the NCAA has granted them the ability to be released from their Penn State scholarships and transfer anywhere they'd like (D-1, D-1AA, D-2, etc) and not have to sit out a year.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
    http://fatherhoodrules.com




  11. #41

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    I didn't state that I advocated anything, so don't try to put words in my mouth. Penalizing the current 2012 PSU football players and student body for decade old errors in judgment by officials who are already being legally sanctioned is wrong. Period. Should you or I be punished for the My Lai Massacre of 1968? There is no logic that I can see for the type far after-the-fact sanction being imposed on PSU. There is good rationale for establishing statutes of limitations in our legal system.
    Thank you for actually using reason and common sense.




  12. #42

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    The students and student athletes are definitely going to feel the brunt of it, but this is also why the NCAA has granted them the ability to be released from their Penn State scholarships and transfer anywhere they'd like (D-1, D-1AA, D-2, etc) and not have to sit out a year.

    Right, the students don't have to go down with the ship. They are free to transfer to any other instituition of their choice with no sanctions from the NCAA.

    If they choose to stay at Pedophile U that is on them.




  13. #43

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by strez View Post
    Thank you for actually using reason and common sense.
    It's called "deterrence." Mista T doesn't see it, you apparently don't see it, but deterrence is actually supported by reason and common sense. "Do not let the football team run the university again, Penn State, and do not let the sports teams run your universities either, NCAA schools, or we will drop the mother @#$!ing hammer on you and your students and your boosters will weep, but we will not have sympathy. Security and the rule of law are more important than your precious football team."

    That's deterrence. Like it, don't like it, I don't care. It is perfectly logical, and it is supported by common sense.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  14. #44

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    - Vacating wins was done because had they come forward with announcing Sandusky's problems in '01, it would have hurt the reputation of the school and program, which would have hurt recruiting and the viability of the program. Thus it created a competitive imbalance. Thus, vacate wins during that time. Doing so from '98 was stupid and arbitrary. Sandusky was formally investigated and cleared. I don't think I've heard anyone in the PSU administration alleged to have done something wrong between '98 and '01.

    - Punishment always results in unintended victims. If I murder a person, I'm thrown in prison. My daughters are victims now because they no longer have the support structure I bring them. Should I not be thrown in prison to avoid hurting my daughters?

    - Anyone sayins some version of "It would have been better had they just given them the death penalty" has no concept of what the death penalty truly does to a program. No, death penalty, even for only one year, would not have been better.

    These penalties seem fair, but who the hell knows. This situation is completely unprecedented, so who am I (or any of us) to say if they really are fair or not?

    - C -
    ---------------------------------------------------

    www.oblongspheroid.com

    A blog about any and everything football.

    Twitter: oblong_spheroid




  15. #45

    Re: Penn State Penalties

    Quote Originally Posted by psuasskicker View Post
    - Vacating wins was done because had they come forward with announcing Sandusky's problems in '01, it would have hurt the reputation of the school and program, which would have hurt recruiting and the viability of the program. Thus it created a competitive imbalance. Thus, vacate wins during that time. Doing so from '98 was stupid and arbitrary. Sandusky was formally investigated and cleared. I don't think I've heard anyone in the PSU administration alleged to have done something wrong between '98 and '01.

    - Punishment always results in unintended victims. If I murder a person, I'm thrown in prison. My daughters are victims now because they no longer have the support structure I bring them. Should I not be thrown in prison to avoid hurting my daughters?

    - Anyone sayins some version of "It would have been better had they just given them the death penalty" has no concept of what the death penalty truly does to a program. No, death penalty, even for only one year, would not have been better.

    These penalties seem fair, but who the hell knows. This situation is completely unprecedented, so who am I (or any of us) to say if they really are fair or not?

    - C -
    You've been very levelheaded about this whole thing, PSU.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Russell Street Report Website Design by D3Corp Ocean City Maryland