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  1. #16
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State



    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    You must have missed the part about U of Oklahoma football players firing Uzis from a balcony. That's got to be a crime somewhere.
    The NCAA didn't sanction them for that.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #17

    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The NCAA didn't sanction them for that.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    You must have missed the part about U of Oklahoma football players firing Uzis from a balcony. That's got to be a crime somewhere.
    Yes, it is a crime. A crime punishable by the police and prosecutors (and possible the ATF).

    The NCAA, OTOH, did not sanction them for that because it was not a violation of an NCAA rule.

    While I am sure that there are a lot of people higher up in the NCAA who would like to take action in the present matter, they know that they are bound by the rules that are before them. IMO, the NCAA is going to have a hard time making those rules fit into a death penalty situation.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

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  3. #18
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The NCAA didn't sanction them for that.
    I thought they did. I stand corrected.




  4. #19
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    So you are calling for "no football program for 10 years". And you think that is an appropriate response?

    I'm all in favor of burning the perps (and we know who they are) at the stake. They were responsible. But I'm not in favor of carpet bombing an institution because it may have benefitted financially from the football program thriving.


    WORLD CHAMPIONS 2000 * 2012




  5. #20

    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    So you are calling for "no football program for 10 years". And you think that is an appropriate response?

    I'm all in favor of burning the perps (and we know who they are) at the stake. They were responsible. But I'm not in favor of carpet bombing an institution because it may have benefitted financially from the football program thriving.
    The "perps" was like the entire institution of Penn State, though. That's what you're missing. You HAVE to punish the institution. This is no different than, say, the Enron scandal.




  6. #21
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    So you are calling for "no football program for 10 years". And you think that is an appropriate response?

    I'm all in favor of burning the perps (and we know who they are) at the stake. They were responsible. But I'm not in favor of carpet bombing an institution because it may have benefitted financially from the football program thriving.
    Yes. Absolutely. When the cover up goes beyond the athletic program and spills over into other areas of the university, then yes. Take it all away.




  7. #22

    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    And there are STILL PSU supporters who are claiming that this thing is overblown and that it's the media's fault.

    Simply amazing.

    PP




  8. #23

    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    The PSU forums are amazing right now.




  9. #24
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Fine let's not kill the football program. Let them continue to play and compete. Let's take all revenues for the next 10 years generated by the football program and donate them to the appropriate charity. Penn State benefitted financially from criminal acts and this is the only way to ensure that real change will be made on that campus.




  10. #25
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Looks like the school is sticking with the "Head up our own Asses" approach to scandal.

    According to reports, all of the student services TV's were abruptly switched to another channel when the Freeh report was released.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #26
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Looks like the school is sticking with the "Head up our own Asses" approach to scandal.

    According to reports, all of the student services TV's were abruptly switched to another channel when the Freeh report was released.
    Wow. Just. Wow.




  12. #27
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    No one is saying that those involved should - in any way - be less punished.

    I'm just not sure that the NCAA is the appropriate authority in this situation.

    You are correct that the NCAA deals with recruiting violations, etc., but they are not the authority to dole out punishment for criminal violations. This is new territory for the NCAA, and I'm not sure which - if any - of the NCAA's rules have been violated.
    An interesting debate about who should be the responsible investigator, prosecutor and judge when it comes to the actions of Penn State administrators.

    I would maintain that the NCAA does monitor the operations of its member-institutions' athletic departments in areas that go well beyond garden-variety recruiting violations.

    What's been alleged is that leadership in and above the athletic department actively covered up Sandusky's crimes in an attempt to "humanely" allow him to end his behavior and his future with the team -- which we now know didn't work, as the crimes continued under their noses.

    And now, in a recent WSJ story, there are new allegations made by Vicky Triponey, the university's standards and conduct officer, who has presented evidence that she sent an email to Pennsylvania State University President Graham Spanier and others, complaining that Paterno insisted that she should have

    no interest, (or business) holding our football players accountable to our community standards. The Coach is insistent he knows best how to discipline his players…and their status as a student when they commit violations of our standards should NOT be our concern…and I think he was saying we should treat football players different from other students in this regard.
    What I see are two different, but related, issues where the NCAA may have an obligation to investigate and possibly discipline the PSU athletic program. For all the horror of the Sandusky revelations, it may actually be the latter issue that gives the NCAA it's way into this mess.

    So, the question remains, should either of these issues, or both, become the NCAA's business?

    When the NCAA comes knocking at your door there are two iconic phrases that cause everyone -- mob-joiners or otherwise -- to sit up and take notice. And those are "death penalty" and "lack of institutional control." The go together, the latter leading to the former.

    So, was this a case where PSU's athletic department lacked institutional control? Look at how the NCAA defines this concept...

    In determining whether there has been a lack of institutional control when a violation of NCAA
    rules has been found it is necessary to ascertain what formal institutional policies and procedures
    were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and
    procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced.
    To reiterate, to start investigating,

    1. Has an NCAA rule possibly been violated?
    2. Did the institution have adequate procedures in place to avoid violations?
    3. Were these procedures ignored or altered?


    An interesting side-note is that a university can get nailed for not adequately monitoring itself -- failure to have procedures in place. This is where "lack of institutional control" applies -- the NCAA doesn't care if bad stuff was being concealed, it maintains that if you can't police yourself, they will.

    This was a long way of coming back to the question of whether the NCAA has rules that govern the behavior of assistant coaches when it comes to non-football stuff. It's akin to the morals clause in an NFL contract. If the NCAA does have blanket rules that govern coaches moral or criminal behavior, then they are obliged to investigate whether the university had proper procedures in place to monitor their coaching staff's behavior off the field, and if so, did they ignore it?

    I don't have access to the NCAA rules; I suspect there are no rules governing coaches moral behavior.

    However, I'm willing to bet there are rules that say coaches can't protect players when they have violated the university's contact code. That's what Triponey alleges Paterno did, and if the athletic department didn't have procedures in place to stop it, or they ignored it, then the NCAA will surely come down on them.




  13. #28
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    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Looks like the school is sticking with the "Head up our own Asses" approach to scandal.

    According to reports, all of the student services TV's were abruptly switched to another channel when the Freeh report was released.
    Brent Hollander on WBAL radio did an excellent interview with Jayne Miller (the TV investigative reporter) on this topic. She grew up in Happy Valley, went to school there, and just ran an unsuccessful campaign to get elected to their board of trustees. In the interview with Hollander she talked about the head in the sand attitude that prevails. She spoke of how she's been actively advising on PR issues and it sounds like its fallen on deaf ears. She talked about the need to "pull the band-aid off quickly" and take the pain now -- come completely clean, otherwise, the program is going to crash.




  14. #29

    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    Two thoughts:

    1. I am not familiar enough with the NCAA disciplinary process to know whether anything that happened is actually subject to disciplinary action. If anything is, I suspect it would involve Sandusky transporting some of his victims around as part of his grooming process, taking them to games and so on. I just don't know how far NCAA authority extends.

    2. Assuming for a moment that the NCAA *can* take action here, Penn State can be done with football for a couple years.

    Sure, the criminal justice system can (and did) reach the most culpable parties, and punishing these pieces of shit does not undo the harm they did, but... Officials at Ohio State and Miami and Oregon and USC and all the other programs should know that the *program* will suffer when you cross some lines. If the NCAA can discipline Penn State and chooses not to because the wrongdoers are being punished, it is condoning the practice of lax oversight and willful ignorance and institutional obedience to the coach that made this tragedy possible.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  15. #30

    Re: The Freeh Report and the Future of Penn State

    If Sean Payton got a year for Bounty-gate, what should Penn State get for this? I think the message has to be firm and substantial......
    Way Down South in New Orleans




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