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  1. #31
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    Just watched a phenomenal documentary on History channel called "9/11 conspiracy fact/fiction"
    Had a lot of the engineers and editors from popular mechanics work, plus many many more.

    Even for someone familiar with popular mechanics work on 9/11, I would highly recommend watching if the opportunity arises.
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  2. #32
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Just watched a phenomenal documentary on History channel called "9/11 conspiracy fact/fiction"
    Had a lot of the engineers and editors from popular mechanics work, plus many many more.

    Even for someone familiar with popular mechanics work on 9/11, I would highly recommend watching if the opportunity arises.
    I've seen it and read the accompanying work in Popular Mechanics.

    Those so-called "Truthers" are a menace. Plain and simple. They once claimed that a plane never hit the Pentagon. I have no idea if they are spewing that nonsense still but anyway ....

    At that time, I was an internal fraud investigator for Nordstrom and my territory included Pentagon City. The morning of 9/11, that mall was completely evacuated, including our store. All of our employees were rushed out to the parking garage. Because of the layout of that store, many of the associates were ushered out to the top of the garage and then walk down the garage steps. At the time the Penatagon itself was hit, there were about 75 mall and Nordstrom employees on the top of that garage and saw the whole thing.

    On 9/12, I got called to that store to assist the FBI in gathering up everyone that worked that day so they could be interviewed. We managed to interview 15 employees that day and to a Man, everyone of them said it was a passenger plane, not a missile as the truthers claim.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I've seen it and read the accompanying work in Popular Mechanics.

    Those so-called "Truthers" are a menace. Plain and simple. They once claimed that a plane never hit the Pentagon. I have no idea if they are spewing that nonsense still but anyway ....

    At that time, I was an internal fraud investigator for Nordstrom and my territory included Pentagon City. The morning of 9/11, that mall was completely evacuated, including our store. All of our employees were rushed out to the parking garage. Because of the layout of that store, many of the associates were ushered out to the top of the garage and then walk down the garage steps. At the time the Penatagon itself was hit, there were about 75 mall and Nordstrom employees on the top of that garage and saw the whole thing.

    On 9/12, I got called to that store to assist the FBI in gathering up everyone that worked that day so they could be interviewed. We managed to interview 15 employees that day and to a Man, everyone of them said it was a passenger plane, not a missile as the truthers claim.
    Very interesting HR, thanks for sharing.

    "Menace" really is the only appropriate title at this point. It's a shame really, individuals who let themselves get so carried away with patently false information. The true supporters, as they call themselves, made up their minds long before ever hearing a shred of information. You can see it in their eyes. The real test of someone who is genuinely seeking the truth is facing negative evidence, not just simply compiling supporting evidence for what you already believe to be so.

    In some sense I think there's a certain arrogance involved with conspiracy theorists. They have an insatiable inability to cope with the uncontrollable nature of humans and the world in general. The fact that we aren't in control, and that everything doesn't have a perfect plan, or black and white explanation, is a position for uncompromising simpletons unaware of the real nature of things.


    One of my favorite lines was at the end when I believe one of the editors, commented on the creators of "Loose Change" saying something to the effect of,

    "Any investigate reporter that lays out a bunch of points and then says connect the dots is a charlatan. The entire point of investigative reporting is to connect the dots. Not just create a nebulous of information."
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  4. #34
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    So true, Sir.

    I once was suckered in to the JFK nonsense. That is, until I stood next to the snipers window at the Sixth Floor Museum.

    A simpleton could have made that shot.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #35
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    I don't think anyone could say they've never atleast considered a conspiracy theory. They're intriguing; fiction is fun. Nothing wrong there. What is wrong is a false sense of security that proceeds a worldview that "explains" things too easily.

    "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't.”

    - Mark Twain
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  6. #36
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    So true, Sir.

    I once was suckered in to the JFK nonsense. That is, until I stood next to the snipers window at the Sixth Floor Museum.

    A simpleton could have made that shot.
    You know a lot about guns, and I'm sure are a little familiar with ballistics etc.

    How does he get shot in the head from behind and the right and his head goes back and to the left? Makes no sense, in addition to a lot of other things with that whole assassination.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #37
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    You know a lot about guns, and I'm sure are a little familiar with ballistics etc.

    How does he get shot in the head from behind and the right and his head goes back and to the left? Makes no sense, in addition to a lot of other things with that whole assassination.
    Trajectory does not indicate how the target will react, for one. Especially a live target that's struck in the central nervous system. If you've ever shot a deer, there is no telling which way they will fall, move, etc. especially when you shoot them in the head.

    Second, it was not as deep of an angle as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe. Yes, Oswald was back and to the right of Kennedy .... but BARELY. The bullet struck Kennedy high and on the back right part of his head. The head movement was more towards the left. A better way of describing the head movement was left THEN to the back. And again, keep in mind once someone is struck in the head, there is no telling what the muscles will do once the trauma occurs.

    Conspiracy theorists have backed off the claim that the head shot came from the grassy knoll anyway. They now dispute, with great fervor, the single bullet theory.

    ABC News pretty much did what Popular Mechanics did to the "truthers" and debunked everything. Here is an explanation in full about the so-called magic bullet ....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #38
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Trajectory does not indicate how the target will react, for one. Especially a live target that's struck in the central nervous system. If you've ever shot a deer, there is no telling which way they will fall, move, etc. especially when you shoot them in the head.

    Second, it was not as deep of an angle as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe. Yes, Oswald was back and to the right of Kennedy .... but BARELY. The bullet struck Kennedy high and on the back right part of his head. The head movement was more towards the left. A better way of describing the head movement was left THEN to the back. And again, keep in mind once someone is struck in the head, there is no telling what the muscles will do once the trauma occurs.

    Conspiracy theorists have backed off the claim that the head shot came from the grassy knoll anyway. They now dispute, with great fervor, the single bullet theory.

    ABC News pretty much did what Popular Mechanics did to the "truthers" and debunked everything. Here is an explanation in full about the so-called magic bullet ....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM
    I'll admit, I am not big into this, so I am not claiming to know anything.

    That video did a very good job of disproving the single bullet theory. It didn't have anything on the head shot though. I hate to argue something I have not thoroughly researched, so I'll just say there seemed to me from what I do know of it to be strange, to say the least.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  9. #39
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I'll admit, I am not big into this, so I am not claiming to know anything.

    That video did a very good job of disproving the single bullet theory. It didn't have anything on the head shot though. I hate to argue something I have not thoroughly researched, so I'll just say there seemed to me from what I do know of it to be strange, to say the least.
    Go deer hunting sometime. You'll quickly learn that the head shot and the subsequent reaction isn't anything strange at all.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #40
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Go deer hunting sometime. You'll quickly learn that the head shot and the subsequent reaction isn't anything strange at all.
    I've been deer hunting.. just not deer shooting
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #41
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I've been deer hunting.. just not deer shooting


    Touche
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  12. #42

    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Trajectory does not indicate how the target will react, for one. Especially a live target that's struck in the central nervous system. If you've ever shot a deer, there is no telling which way they will fall, move, etc. especially when you shoot them in the head.

    Second, it was not as deep of an angle as the conspiracy theorists would have you believe. Yes, Oswald was back and to the right of Kennedy .... but BARELY. The bullet struck Kennedy high and on the back right part of his head. The head movement was more towards the left. A better way of describing the head movement was left THEN to the back. And again, keep in mind once someone is struck in the head, there is no telling what the muscles will do once the trauma occurs.

    Conspiracy theorists have backed off the claim that the head shot came from the grassy knoll anyway. They now dispute, with great fervor, the single bullet theory.

    ABC News pretty much did what Popular Mechanics did to the "truthers" and debunked everything. Here is an explanation in full about the so-called magic bullet ....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM
    There was never a doubt that at least 1 of the shots came from the book depository building. People with common sense see the reaction of Kennedy to the final shot...the kill shot...and they immediately realize that it came from in front of the President…not in the back. Only a fool would disagree with that. Aside from the “back and to the left” direction of Kennedy’s head…there is unsubstantiated evidence that a shot came from the knoll. There were witnesses that said the shot came from the knoll. There were witnesses that saw people from the knoll firing a rifle and then disassembling the rifle and then putting it into a tool chest and then handing it to another person. Other videos and pictures have shown that after the limo sped off, people are running towards the knoll because that is where EVERYONE heard the final shot come from.

    No matter what youtube video or documentary you watch...common sense alone says that the final shot came from the knoll. When there are countless witnesses that say the exact same thing, I think that pretty much wraps it up. This is pretty much indisputable and thus...proves that a conspiracy to cover up Kennedy's death was in play.




  13. #43
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    There was never a doubt that at least 1 of the shots came from the book depository building. People with common sense see the reaction of Kennedy to the final shot...the kill shot...and they immediately realize that it came from in front of the President…not in the back. Only a fool would disagree with that.
    Chill with the "fool" comments. We can disagree without being disagreeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    Aside from the “back and to the left” direction of Kennedy’s head…there is unsubstantiated evidence that a shot came from the knoll. There were witnesses that said the shot came from the knoll. There were witnesses that saw people from the knoll firing a rifle and then disassembling the rifle and then putting it into a tool chest and then handing it to another person
    As you correctly point out, unsubstantiated.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    Other videos and pictures have shown that after the limo sped off, people are running towards the knoll because that is where EVERYONE heard the final shot come from.
    It's called an echo. I've been to Dealy Plaza many times. It's an echo chamber. If you fire a high powered rifle it's going echo off every wall within half a mile.

    And please show me these videos and pictures that prove this. I guarantee, you won't find any.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    No matter what youtube video or documentary you watch...common sense 100% says that the final shot came from the knoll. This is pretty much indisputable.
    Clearly you didn't even look to see what the video was.

    It's a documentary done by ABC News, enlisting a forensic video analyst who proved it all shots were from behind. It's titled "Beyond Conspiracy" and you can easily watch the whole thing online if you so choose. It's not some random Youtube video.
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 10-25-2012 at 01:00 PM.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  14. #44

    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Clearly you didn't even look to see what the video was.

    It's a documentary done by ABC News, enlisting a forensic video analyst who proved it all shots were from behind. It's titled "Beyond Conspiracy" and you can easily watch the whole thing online if you so choose. It's not some random Youtube video.


    And chill with the "fool" comments. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
    I saw it. I watched it...and just because Peter Jennings and ABC created it does not make it credible. The fact is...these Warren Commission lawyers are making statements that are simply not true.

    A lof of the Warren Commission testimonies were said to have been inaccurate. People who were interviewed in the report have come out and said so. Their interviews were doctored and misrepresented in the final report. Why would they lie about that?

    It’s the biggest coverup in American history and the government, any politician, lawyer, ambassador, janitor, or anyone remotely associated with it will deny it forever.




  15. #45
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    Re: Conspiracy: The Storms That hit MD/DC/VA 2 weeks ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    I saw it. I watched it...and just because Peter Jennings and ABC created it does not make it credible. The fact is...these Warren Commission lawyers are making statements that are simply not true.

    A lof of the Warren Commission testimonies were said to have been inaccurate. People who were interviewed in the report have come out and said so. Their interviews were doctored and misrepresented in the final report. Why would they lie about that?

    It’s the biggest coverup in American history and the government, any politician, lawyer, ambassador, janitor, or anyone remotely associated with it will deny it forever.
    Again, maybe you should try watching the video. They are not supporting the Warren Commission. Not one bit. Nor am I.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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