Temperatures during Medieval Times hotter than modern times...

[wickedsolo]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07...limate_change/

Kind of puts a damper on the whole "Global Warming" thing, huh?

At the very least, it is an interesting talking point...

[HoustonRaven]

The Earth is indeed warming. I don't think there is any disagreement there.

But as to the extent and cause? For any side to claim they have the sole answer is nonsense.

Me personally, I don't think us as mere Man can effect the global temperature all that much. Cars are burning cleaner, the levels of CO2 in the Earths atmosphere is lower now than they were during many periods of Earth's history and the increasing evidence that the Sun is doing far more to determine global temperatures than previously thought. The Oregon Petition has pretty much swayed my thinking for good on the issue.

But if you apply that kind of reasoning, the left brands you as also believing the Earth is flat, Sasquatch is real, etc.

[wickedsolo]

The Earth is indeed warming. I don't think there is any disagreement there.

But as to the extent and cause? For any side to claim they have the sole answer is nonsense.

Me personally, I don't think us as mere Man can effect the global temperature all that much. Cars are burning cleaner, the levels of CO2 in the Earths atmosphere is lower now than they were during many periods of Earth's history and the increasing evidence that the Sun is doing far more to determine global temperatures than previously thought. The Oregon Petition has pretty much swayed my thinking for good on the issue.

But if you apply that kind of reasoning, the left brands you as also believing the Earth is flat, Sasquatch is real, etc.

He's not?

[wickedsolo]

The Earth is indeed warming. I don't think there is any disagreement there.

But as to the extent and cause? For any side to claim they have the sole answer is nonsense.

Me personally, I don't think us as mere Man can effect the global temperature all that much. Cars are burning cleaner, the levels of CO2 in the Earths atmosphere is lower now than they were during many periods of Earth's history and the increasing evidence that the Sun is doing far more to determine global temperatures than previously thought. The Oregon Petition has pretty much swayed my thinking for good on the issue.

But if you apply that kind of reasoning, the left brands you as also believing the Earth is flat, Sasquatch is real, etc.

I'll have to read the Oregon Petition, but I pretty much agree with everything you said. I think people just want some reason to worry or panic. The Earth is going to do what it's going to do and there is little that we can do to alter it. I believe that we need to continue to do our part though and minimize waste and conserve the "wilderness" as best as we can, but this whole notion that you hate the environment unless you buy a Nissan Leaf or Prius is bogus IMO.

[NCRAVEN]

The Earth is indeed warming. I don't think there is any disagreement there.

But as to the extent and cause? For any side to claim they have the sole answer is nonsense.

Me personally, I don't think us as mere Man can effect the global temperature all that much. Cars are burning cleaner, the levels of CO2 in the Earths atmosphere is lower now than they were during many periods of Earth's history and the increasing evidence that the Sun is doing far more to determine global temperatures than previously thought. The Oregon Petition has pretty much swayed my thinking for good on the issue.

But if you apply that kind of reasoning, the left brands you as also believing the Earth is flat, Sasquatch is real, etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-together.html

BTW - I'm with you, I find it ridiculously arrogant for man to think we could have an affect on the climate.

The amount of carbon or greenhouse gases we can emit in relation to the size of the planet is so small it's borderline immeasurable.

[HoustonRaven]

I believe that we need to continue to do our part though and minimize waste and conserve the "wilderness" as best as we can, but this whole notion that you hate the environment unless you buy a Nissan Leaf or Prius is bogus IMO.

Bingo!

That's the side of the debate that gets under my skin. The conservation movement has been co-opted by these alarmist that make it an all of nothing debate.

My wife was a victim of this when we first met. We got into a debate early in our relationship and I shared my views on AGW. It did not compute and she assumed that I was anti-conservation. Then she came to my house and saw that I do my part.

[Irish Raven]

I was a young un in the 90's

Ozone layer was the buzz word of the decade, do you remember this? :)
Your refrigerator and your can of deodarant had CFC's

We drew posters in school about the ozone layer

And then whoosh, overnight it disappered from the media and nobody talks about it anymore. What happened? Do you remember the last time anyone talked to you about the ozone layer? I don't

I suppose it got replaced by Global Warming

And that got replaced by Climate Change

Next decade we will have a new buzz word

Repeat something enough times and add a bit of fear and you can convince people of anything.
Politicians and kings have been doing it since the beginning of time


Just do your own research and inform yourself

[NCRAVEN]

I was a young un in the 90's

Ozone layer was the buzz word of the decade, do you remember this? :)
Your refrigerator and your can of deodarant had CFC's

We drew posters in school about the ozone layer

And then whoosh, overnight it disappered from the media and nobody talks about it anymore. What happened? Do you remember the last time anyone talked to you about the ozone layer? I don't

I suppose it got replaced by Global Warming

And that got replaced by Climate Change

Next decade we will have a new buzz word

Repeat something enough times and add a bit of fear and you can convince people of anything.
Politicians and kings have been doing it since the beginning of time


Just do your own research and inform yourself

I remember that, and thought about that myself.

I also remember in..1st grade I think, a campaign to conserve water.. BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING OUT. i swear I remember Tom Seleck (Magnum PI) was on that video saying take the cold bath water that comes out first to water your flowers... :grbac:

[HoustonRaven]

I vividly remember global cooling.

[NCRAVEN]

I vividly remember global cooling.

Not to date yourself or anything.

[jonboy79]

The Earth is indeed warming. I don't think there is any disagreement there.

But as to the extent and cause? For any side to claim they have the sole answer is nonsense.

Me personally, I don't think us as mere Man can effect the global temperature all that much. Cars are burning cleaner, the levels of CO2 in the Earths atmosphere is lower now than they were during many periods of Earth's history and the increasing evidence that the Sun is doing far more to determine global temperatures than previously thought. The Oregon Petition has pretty much swayed my thinking for good on the issue.

But if you apply that kind of reasoning, the left brands you as also believing the Earth is flat, Sasquatch is real, etc.

This kind of logic and reasoning doesn't fly at all because it doesn't jive with peer reviewed studies that show the temperature is rising, so the illogical conclusion that we are causing it is the only one recognized by some(G7 included). All data about the MWP and previous warming cycles must be based on poor measurements??? I'm not sure, they jsut get ignored. The only scale of time they are willing to look at is since the Industrial revolution. All previous data msut be ignored.

I think arrogance is the correct term, as per above.

[Sirdowski]

I snipped a few paragraphs from a piece I had written a few years ago.

The general notion accepted today that at some period the Earth maintained the ideal climate and any deviation from that would be detrimental is not only scientifically and historically inaccurate, but is a direct contradiction to the fundamental concept of climate science: The climate is always changing.

As HR said, climate scientists have warned of impending doom from temperature changes dating back as early as the 1800’s, changing their theories sporadically every few years on what specific climate change will be our demise, global warming or a new ice age. “Geologists Think the*World May Be Frozen Up Again*–*New York Times, February 1895,* 1933*-*America in Longest Warm Spell Since 1776; Temperature Line Records a 25-Year Rise*–*New York Times, March 27th, 1933, 1974*- Global cooling for the past forty years –*Time Magazine, 1981*- Global Warming – “of an almost unprecedented magnitude” – New York Times”(Climate Change Timeline).


The Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change (IPCC) is the leading international body devoted toward the assessment of climate change. Brought into existence by the United Nations, the IPCC states that their mission is to “provide the world with a clear scientific view on the current state of knowledge in climate change and its potential environmental and socio-economic impacts” (IPCC). In 2001, the IPCC released its annual assessment report. The document covered the annual observations in climate variability and change, portraying the “Hockey Stick Graph,” as the definitive graph of the Earth’s temperature record, completely omitting the Medieval Warm period and Little Ice Age (Climate Change 2001). Surely it is not in the IPCC’s intentions to deliberately belie the “clear scientific view on the current state of knowledge in climate change” which they mean to supply, which is most assuredly the reason the IPCC made sure to remove the “Hockey Stick” in the subsequent reports, failing to cite any previous error in the admission of using false scientific information. When testifying before the senate Dr. David Deming spoke as so, “In 1769, Joseph Priestley warned that scientists overly attached to a favorite hypothesis would not hesitate to "warp the whole course of nature." In 1999, Michael Mann and his colleagues published a reconstruction of past temperature in which the Medieval Warm Period simply vanished. This unique estimate became known as the "hockey stick," because of the shape of the temperature graph. Normally in science, when you have a novel result that appears to overturn previous work, you have to demonstrate why the earlier work was wrong. But the work of Mann and his colleagues was initially accepted uncritically, even though it contradicted the results of more than 100 previous studies. Other researchers have since reaffirmed that the Medieval Warm Period was both warm and global in its*extent.

*
"Climate Change Timeline."*Butnowyouknow.wordpress.com. 28 Nov. 2010. Web. 11 Dec.
2012. <http://butnowyouknow.wordpress.com/those-who-fail-to-learn-from-history/climate-change-timeline/>.
*

"IPCC: Organization."*IPCC.ch. The United Nations. Web. 8 Dec. 2010.
<http://www.ipcc.ch/organization/organization.shtml>.


United States. Cong. Senate. Committee on Environment & Public Works.*College of Earth and

Energy Climate Change and the Media. By David Deming. 111th Cong., 2nd sess. S.

Rept. GPO, 2006.*Epw.senate.gov. 12 June 2006. Web. 20 Nov. 2010.

<http://epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543>.