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  1. #76
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?



    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Bingo.

    It cracks me up when I read how Cam isn't getting "the most" out of his offense. The talent on this offense is severely overrated by many fans.

    Do people really think a guy like Sean Payton would march in here and turn this offense into an elite (passing) offense with the current personnel?

    I know I don't.

    PP
    Sean Payton's offense is an overall better design than Cam's. Sure, Brees is what makes that offense go, but Payton has done a nice job getting a lot of guys involved in the running game and he's done an even better job at getting the ball into the hands of his play makers over the years.


    Also, considering the success of Brees and Rivers while under Cam and then under another offensive coordinator could logically lead someone to the argument that Cam's offensive philosophy isn't QB friendly and isn't WR friendly, ergo someone like Sean Payton could potentially get more out of the players on the Ravens' squad than what Cam has done.
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  2. #77
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Bingo.

    It cracks me up when I read how Cam isn't getting "the most" out of his offense. The talent on this offense is severely overrated by many fans.

    Do people really think a guy like Sean Payton would march in here and turn this offense into an elite (passing) offense with the current personnel?

    I know I don't.

    PP
    Are the Saints really that superior to us on offense?

    Colston is in the same class as Mike Wallace, just below first tier of WR's. He is a good weapon for Brees, but not exactly a megatron or a Larry Fitzgerald. Meachem was a decent receiver for them, but he finished the season with less yards than Torrey Smith finished his rookie season for us. I will agree that Jimmy Graham is on a different level, and a top 3 TE in the game right now, probably his best weapon. Sproles is an underrated RB who is good carrying the ball, and receiving, but he isn't in the same class as Ray Rice.

    The offensive line is a better unit overall, their tackles are nothing special, but do a better job than ours. They have the best left guard in football, but ours wasn't too bad either, and they have an overrated right guard that is secretly not as good as Marshall Yanda despite what a bunch of NFL network blog writers would want to tell you.

    So yeah talent wise, they probably have an edge over us, but it's not quite as drastic as you'd believe. I am not a fan of Cam, but niether am I a hater of him, I think he has at times done a good job calling certain games for us. But lets not live in the clouds here, I am pretty sure Sean Payton would develop this offense into at least a top 15 overall unit.




  3. #78

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Are the Saints really that superior to us on offense?

    Colston is in the same class as Mike Wallace, just below first tier of WR's. He is a good weapon for Brees, but not exactly a megatron or a Larry Fitzgerald. Meachem was a decent receiver for them, but he finished the season with less yards than Torrey Smith finished his rookie season for us. I will agree that Jimmy Graham is on a different level, and a top 3 TE in the game right now, probably his best weapon. Sproles is an underrated RB who is good carrying the ball, and receiving, but he isn't in the same class as Ray Rice.

    The offensive line is a better unit overall, their tackles are nothing special, but do a better job than ours. They have the best left guard in football, but ours wasn't too bad either, and they have an overrated right guard that is secretly not as good as Marshall Yanda despite what a bunch of NFL network blog writers would want to tell you.

    So yeah talent wise, they probably have an edge over us, but it's not quite as drastic as you'd believe. I am not a fan of Cam, but niether am I a hater of him, I think he has at times done a good job calling certain games for us. But lets not live in the clouds here, I am pretty sure Sean Payton would develop this offense into at least a top 15 overall unit.
    You left out the QBs in your list.

    Yes, I believe the talent the Saints have on offense is clearly better than that of the Ravens.

    An Oline that's better and a QB that's on a ridiculous level can make many play callers look damn good.

    PP




  4. #79

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Sean Payton's offense is an overall better design than Cam's. Sure, Brees is what makes that offense go, but Payton has done a nice job getting a lot of guys involved in the running game and he's done an even better job at getting the ball into the hands of his play makers over the years.


    Also, considering the success of Brees and Rivers while under Cam and then under another offensive coordinator could logically lead someone to the argument that Cam's offensive philosophy isn't QB friendly and isn't WR friendly, ergo someone like Sean Payton could potentially get more out of the players on the Ravens' squad than what Cam has done.
    This is the issue I have. You can't just brush off Brees like that. It's a HUGE thing to have a guy like that along with an OL that protects him.

    I believe Payton is great at running his offense. But it doesn't work without incredible talent.

    And again, I say the Saints have more talent than the Ravens on offense.

    And I saw Torrey Smith make big play after big play last year as a RAW rookie who couldn't catch a thing in camp.

    PP




  5. #80
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    You left out the QBs in your list.

    Yes, I believe the talent the Saints have on offense is clearly better than that of the Ravens.

    An Oline that's better and a QB that's on a ridiculous level can make many play callers look damn good.

    PP
    I meant the weapons on offense rather than the QB. The weapons that the Saints have are not all that superior to ours is what I'm saying.




  6. #81

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I meant the weapons on offense rather than the QB. The weapons that the Saints have are not all that superior to ours is what I'm saying.
    How can you leave out the QB though?

    We're talking about the offense as a whole.

    QB is easily the more important ingredient.

    Am I missing something?

    PP




  7. #82

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplepoe View Post
    Bingo.

    It cracks me up when I read how Cam isn't getting "the most" out of his offense. The talent on this offense is severely overrated by many fans.

    Do people really think a guy like Sean Payton would march in here and turn this offense into an elite (passing) offense with the current personnel?

    I know I don't.

    PP
    If Sean Payton was the offensive coordinator here we'd have probably won a few super bowls. He knows how to find the weakness in a defense and attack it. Cameron doesn't attack, he cowers. He plays scared and it affects the whole offense.




  8. #83
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Cactus View Post
    I've been hearing some good things about Flacco looking sharp in OTAs and minicamp (while he was there). Obviously you need to take that with a grain of salt, but maybe Caldwell is a good partner for Flacco.

    It strikes me that if Flacco looks significantly better this season there could be temptation to replace Cam with Cladwell. At a minimum I'm sure we'd have some fans asking for it.

    Of course, if Flacco does well that may reduce the heat on Cam anyway, so it's a bit of a catch-22.

    As far as Caldwell's qualifications, I believe he's mostly been a QB coach before being head coach for the Colts. I would think that's enough if you're unhappy with Cam.

    Thats what i was hoping before i found out that CALDWELL isnt an Offensive Coord. He has only been an Assistant Coach and we all know who exactly the O.C was in INDY. And it showed when Manning wasn't on the field.

    But hey , you never know. He might be by yrs end and i know for a fact he can't do any worse than Cam. And Maybe that will give Flacco more shots at calling plays.

    Might be a blessing disguise




  9. #84
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    If Sean Payton was the offensive coordinator here we'd have probably won a few super bowls. He knows how to find the weakness in a defense and attack it. Cameron doesn't attack, he cowers. He plays scared and it affects the whole offense.
    This. I wonder what he would have done the first time he saw Boldin covered by Julian Edelman.




  10. #85
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    I tried skimming through all the responses -- maybe this point has already been made and I missed it. But isn't their a logical flaw in the original question asked in this thread?

    Flacco is already playing at a relatively high level, albeit with some inconsistencies. If he starts consistently putting up solid numbers game in, game out, then you have to believe the offense will be really clicking. I can't imagine a season where we all agree that the quarterback has played great, but the offense sputtered.

    If better QB play = better offensive production, then it's hard to imagine how better offensive production = fired offensive coordinator.

    I understand that the original thought behind the question was that Caldwell would get the credit for getting an extra 10% out of Joe that Cam never got, but I just can't picture how that leads to leapfrogging the QB coach over the coordinator of a successful offense.

    If anything, I'd be more likely to believe that Joe struggling, and the offense never clicking, would be the cause of Cam losing his job. And then I could see them thinking, hey, it wasn't Caldwell's fault. He and Joe have a good relationship. Let's just elevate Jim to the coordinator's job.

    In short, upper management doesn't get fired when middle management performs well.




  11. #86

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    I tried skimming through all the responses -- maybe this point has already been made and I missed it. But isn't their a logical flaw in the original question asked in this thread?

    Flacco is already playing at a relatively high level, albeit with some inconsistencies. If he starts consistently putting up solid numbers game in, game out, then you have to believe the offense will be really clicking. I can't imagine a season where we all agree that the quarterback has played great, but the offense sputtered.

    If better QB play = better offensive production, then it's hard to imagine how better offensive production = fired offensive coordinator.

    I understand that the original thought behind the question was that Caldwell would get the credit for getting an extra 10% out of Joe that Cam never got, but I just can't picture how that leads to leapfrogging the QB coach over the coordinator of a successful offense.

    If anything, I'd be more likely to believe that Joe struggling, and the offense never clicking, would be the cause of Cam losing his job. And then I could see them thinking, hey, it wasn't Caldwell's fault. He and Joe have a good relationship. Let's just elevate Jim to the coordinator's job.

    In short, upper management doesn't get fired when middle management performs well.
    If the offense becomes consistently good because Flacco plays at a high level and the Ravens get to and maybe win the SB then Cam might get some interviews to be an HC but he's definetly not going to be forced out because Caldwell might get some credit for Joe's new found consistency. Look at what's happened up in NY with the Giants. They've won 2 SB's with Kevin Gilbride as the OC and he's not going anywhere. Just like Cam, he had his shot and failed and maybe he's simply not going to get another shot for that reason or he no longer wants to be a HC.

    My take is that Cam wants another shot but he's probably not going to get it. We can all hope for this but as Joe gets better, it only entrenches Cam as our favorite OC.

    I feel that Joe is going to take a major leap this year so that reality may bear itself out.




  12. #87
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    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Shaslers probably put this in its proper perspective. The only way that I could see Cameron out is if he is offered another job at the college level that is really enticing. I do not see any other NFL positions opening for him, even if the offense is successful. Then again, Joe could make the promotion of Jim Caldwell a major factor in negotiations, by that point. I doubt that he would, but he could always give a little elbow nudge and whisper. lol.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  13. #88

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    This. I wonder what he would have done the first time he saw Boldin covered by Julian Edelman.
    I think that's where Cam and the Harbaugh have to let Joe run the offense through the line of scrimmage. If Edleman was truly single covering Q then Joe should've been able to at least adjust Q's route to attack him. My thinking though is that NE figured they'd take a chance with Q catching short passes for relatively short gains versus getting beat deep by Torrey.

    It's not always as easy as it looks.




  14. #89

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    I wonder what he would have done the first time he saw Boldin covered by Julian Edelman.
    According to the play-by-play on NFL.com, of the 9 plays (not counting the kick) the Ravens ran on their final drive, 5 of them went toward Boldin.

    Here are the plays that did not go to Boldin:
    2-10-BAL 21 (1:39) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass short left to 88-D.Pitta to BAL 26 for 5 yards (25-P.Chung).
    1-10-BAL 39 (1:09) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short middle to 27-R.Rice (51-J.Mayo).
    2-1-NE 14 (:27) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 83-L.Evans (29-S.Moore). (Should have been touchdown)
    3-1-NE 14 (:22) (Shotgun) 5-J.Flacco pass incomplete short right to 88-D.Pitta (29-S.Moore) [52-D.Fletcher]
    Twice to Pitta, once to Rice, and once to Evans in the end zone. On the other plays, Flacco completed 4 passes for 60 yards to Boldin.

    It's not like the Ravens ignored the matchup.




  15. #90

    Re: If Flacco improves, could Caldwell replace Cam in 2013?

    I just re-looked at that play-by-play. Is it possible that those passes to Boldin on the final drive were the first ones thrown his way, since 9:17 in the second quarter?!?? Is that possible at all??




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