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  1. #121
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?



    Ed dickson. This guy has a lot of fans and damned if I know why. All he does is take plays away from Pitta, a much greater contributor.




  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Art View Post
    Ed dickson. This guy has a lot of fans and damned if I know why. All he does is take plays away from Pitta, a much greater contributor.
    Dickson had the most third down receptions by a tight end in the entire league last year, including several more than Gronkowski. I'd say Ed did plenty to contribute.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  3. #123

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Dickson had the most third down receptions by a tight end in the entire league last year, including several more than Gronkowski. I'd say Ed did plenty to contribute.
    Yes Dickson had some big plays but also a lot of drops. I wouldnt be to harsh to him as everyone knew that Pitta has the better hands but not the playmaking potential like Dickson has. Both are entering their third season, we will see who does better, but I do give Pitta the upper hand as well right now, tough Dickson will get his chances too.




  4. #124
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    Ed needs to work on the drops, but so does Torrey and no one is confused about why fans are excited about him. Ed played remarkably good football for a first year starter last year, and as I pointed out, was an absolute machine on third downs. The idea that he's doing nothing but "taking plays from Pitta" is remarkably unfounded and completely unsupportable.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  5. #125
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Yeah I don't get why people are so down on Dickson. It was his first year as a starter, and is more explosive than Pitta and a slightly better blocker. Pitta has better hands, and is probably more of a reliable target who will move the chains, but Dickson can make those big plays on 3rd down, and probably has more upside. Either way it's good to have the two of them progressing, they are different players can can do different things better than each other, but need to improve on some areas of their game too. Dickson needs to work on his hands, and could get a little more physical, Pitta needs to work on his blocking and getting better separation (but not sure if he'll ever be that player, he's more of a Todd Heap/Heath Miller type of guy).




  6. #126

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah I don't get why people are so down on Dickson. It was his first year as a starter, and is more explosive than Pitta and a slightly better blocker. Pitta has better hands, and is probably more of a reliable target who will move the chains, but Dickson can make those big plays on 3rd down, and probably has more upside. Either way it's good to have the two of them progressing, they are different players can can do different things better than each other, but need to improve on some areas of their game too. Dickson needs to work on his hands, and could get a little more physical, Pitta needs to work on his blocking and getting better separation (but not sure if he'll ever be that player, he's more of a Todd Heap/Heath Miller type of guy).
    Agree with you, Dickson has probably more upside due to his speed, as a fan I love to see both guys pushing each other it only makes this group better.
    @actualspambot sure torrey had his drops, but it was his rookie season and he made so many big important plays for this offense that it is hard to not get excited about him, I mean this guy ran by defenders like it was a video game occasionally. And he is also a WR, an area where the Ravens havent had much luck in the past years.




  7. #127
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah I don't get why people are so down on Dickson. It was his first year as a starter, and is more explosive than Pitta and a slightly better blocker. Pitta has better hands, and is probably more of a reliable target who will move the chains, but Dickson can make those big plays on 3rd down, and probably has more upside. Either way it's good to have the two of them progressing, they are different players can can do different things better than each other, but need to improve on some areas of their game too. Dickson needs to work on his hands, and could get a little more physical, Pitta needs to work on his blocking and getting better separation (but not sure if he'll ever be that player, he's more of a Todd Heap/Heath Miller type of guy).



    Quote Originally Posted by defence84 View Post
    Agree with you, Dickson has probably more upside due to his speed, as a fan I love to see both guys pushing each other it only makes this group better.
    @actualspambot sure torrey had his drops, but it was his rookie season and he made so many big important plays for this offense that it is hard to not get excited about him, I mean this guy ran by defenders like it was a video game occasionally. And he is also a WR, an area where the Ravens havent had much luck in the past years.
    I get the sense that the fans view Dickson as more of a finesse guy while Pitta is looked at as blue collar. But Dickson has shown a willingness to go over the middle that I am not sure I've seen in Pitta yet. I think if you look at the biggest hits our offensive guys took last year, I'd say Dickson took more than any other player. I don't really recall Dickson having any wide open drops (but I could be wrong). And to hold onto the ball when a safety is about to take your freaking head off is a lot harder than it looks.

    If I remember correctly Ozzie was asked who would not having an offseason impact the most and Ozzie mentioned second year players. Because the belief is that the most maturation a player does is between his first and second offseason. For Dickson AND Pitta to play as well as they did is a great sign.




  8. #128
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Yes, Dickson is viewed as a finesse guy, in a not so finesse town, where his one job is to get separation and catch the ball. Of all the WRs/TEs, he probably did the best job of separating from defenders, but dropped a lot of passes that the offense had to overcome. He caught his share, because he was targeted often. However, there were also times (New England playoffs, Cleveland home game), where drives ended on third down, because he couldn't catch passes that should have been caught.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  9. #129

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Yeah I don't get why people are so down on Dickson. It was his first year as a starter, and is more explosive than Pitta and a slightly better blocker. Pitta has better hands, and is probably more of a reliable target who will move the chains, but Dickson can make those big plays on 3rd down, and probably has more upside. Either way it's good to have the two of them progressing, they are different players can can do different things better than each other, but need to improve on some areas of their game too. Dickson needs to work on his hands, and could get a little more physical, Pitta needs to work on his blocking and getting better separation (but not sure if he'll ever be that player, he's more of a Todd Heap/Heath Miller type of guy).
    Dicksons a better blocker? I dont think i really agree with that. Im not saying Pitta is good either, both need to work on it. if Pitta isnt better, id say theyre similar and non-distinguishable in that aspect.

    Dickson may have had the most 3rd down catches, but he was also targeted highly to accomplish that. The problem with dickson is he only caught 60% of the passes thrown to him last year while Pitta caught 71%. thats the big difference between the two, with the average for a TE being closer to 68%, Dickson is far below average in that aspect. You only get so many chances and its about what you do with them. Pitta gets 89 targets instead of 54, and you see the stats Dickson got, plus more. Its still early and he could progress into something more of a weapon, but right now hes all potential and not much on efficiency. Hopefully he worked on his hands and this wont be an issue anymore and he will have more to offer than Pitta, but as is, i cant see why he would start over him.

    i think theres a fallacy that Dickson is a far better athlete than Pitta, in which case id say he is overrated. their 40 times were 0.04 different, 3-cone Pitta was better (6.72 vs 7.13) bench Pitta won by 4 reps and broad jump dickson won by 1-2". Theyre almost completely identical athletes. Anything Dickson can do in the passing game, Pitta can as well, so i dont really see the argument that without dickson, pitta would struggle like so many typically suggest. 2 TEs certainly play off each other but in 1 TE sets i dont think you lose field stretching ability with Pitta out there, you just gain a sure handed receiver. I expect big things from both of them this year (if dickson fixes his hands), but I do think Pitta will get the nod as starter. anytime a bench player out plays a starter i think its fair to debate if hes overrated. Grand scheme of things though, id say hes just a young player thats trying to figure it out.
    -JAB




  10. #130

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Dicksons a better blocker? I dont think i really agree with that. Im not saying Pitta is good either, both need to work on it. if Pitta isnt better, id say theyre similar and non-distinguishable in that aspect.

    Dickson may have had the most 3rd down catches, but he was also targeted highly to accomplish that. The problem with dickson is he only caught 60% of the passes thrown to him last year while Pitta caught 71%. thats the big difference between the two, with the average for a TE being closer to 68%, Dickson is far below average in that aspect. You only get so many chances and its about what you do with them. Pitta gets 89 targets instead of 54, and you see the stats Dickson got, plus more. Its still early and he could progress into something more of a weapon, but right now hes all potential and not much on efficiency. Hopefully he worked on his hands and this wont be an issue anymore and he will have more to offer than Pitta, but as is, i cant see why he would start over him.

    i think theres a fallacy that Dickson is a far better athlete than Pitta, in which case id say he is overrated. their 40 times were 0.04 different, 3-cone Pitta was better (6.72 vs 7.13) bench Pitta won by 4 reps and broad jump dickson won by 1-2". Theyre almost completely identical athletes. Anything Dickson can do in the passing game, Pitta can as well, so i dont really see the argument that without dickson, pitta would struggle like so many typically suggest. 2 TEs certainly play off each other but in 1 TE sets i dont think you lose field stretching ability with Pitta out there, you just gain a sure handed receiver. I expect big things from both of them this year (if dickson fixes his hands), but I do think Pitta will get the nod as starter. anytime a bench player out plays a starter i think its fair to debate if hes overrated. Grand scheme of things though, id say hes just a young player thats trying to figure it out.
    Where did you get all those stats from ? Especially those target numbers ?
    One point I have to disagree with you is that Pitta can do the same downfield than Dickson, Dickson is faster no doubt about it, just watch some tape. Combine results only tell half of the story, a lot os it can be trained while not becoming a better football player, also they run all those drills without pads, which makes a huge difference sometimes.




  11. #131
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Dicksons a better blocker? I dont think i really agree with that. Im not saying Pitta is good either, both need to work on it. if Pitta isnt better, id say theyre similar and non-distinguishable in that aspect.

    Dickson may have had the most 3rd down catches, but he was also targeted highly to accomplish that. The problem with dickson is he only caught 60% of the passes thrown to him last year while Pitta caught 71%. thats the big difference between the two, with the average for a TE being closer to 68%, Dickson is far below average in that aspect. You only get so many chances and its about what you do with them. Pitta gets 89 targets instead of 54, and you see the stats Dickson got, plus more. Its still early and he could progress into something more of a weapon, but right now hes all potential and not much on efficiency. Hopefully he worked on his hands and this wont be an issue anymore and he will have more to offer than Pitta, but as is, i cant see why he would start over him.

    i think theres a fallacy that Dickson is a far better athlete than Pitta, in which case id say he is overrated. their 40 times were 0.04 different, 3-cone Pitta was better (6.72 vs 7.13) bench Pitta won by 4 reps and broad jump dickson won by 1-2". Theyre almost completely identical athletes. Anything Dickson can do in the passing game, Pitta can as well, so i dont really see the argument that without dickson, pitta would struggle like so many typically suggest. 2 TEs certainly play off each other but in 1 TE sets i dont think you lose field stretching ability with Pitta out there, you just gain a sure handed receiver. I expect big things from both of them this year (if dickson fixes his hands), but I do think Pitta will get the nod as starter. anytime a bench player out plays a starter i think its fair to debate if hes overrated. Grand scheme of things though, id say hes just a young player thats trying to figure it out.
    I do think Pitta is slightly better than Dickson blocking-wise, but that's beside my point. Using your numbers, if Pitta had the same amount of "targets" as Dickson, he would have had 9 more catches. That is significant. Also, using my personal eyeball test, it seemed like Flacco was using Pitta as more of a go-to guy later in the season. IMO Joe has more confidence in Pitta catching the ball no matter how many 3rd down catches Dickson had... Bc




  12. #132

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by defence84 View Post
    Where did you get all those stats from ? Especially those target numbers ?
    One point I have to disagree with you is that Pitta can do the same downfield than Dickson, Dickson is faster no doubt about it, just watch some tape. Combine results only tell half of the story, a lot os it can be trained while not becoming a better football player, also they run all those drills without pads, which makes a huge difference sometimes.
    espn.com.

    Ive watched tape. i dont think hes that much faster, which his combine numbers would support. the main thing he has is that hes a slightly larger guy, more of a wingspan, but doesnt always use that to his advantage, so its kind of a moot point. I would say the reason they use him more as a field stretcher than Pitta might be simply because he doesnt seem as good out of his cuts which his 3-cone also supports. I will say he seems to get off the line slightly better (broad jump supports that) but at the end of the day, you send two guys down field that are both 6'4+, one 4.63 the other 4.59, both will be effective at stretching the field. Theyre using each at their strengths which in this case is allowing Dickson to do what he does best and Pitta to work the underneath, but that doesnt mean Pitta cant do both, he just cant do both at the same time.
    -JAB




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