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  1. #76

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?



    I think the problem with rating Flacco is we really don't know his full potential in Cam's offense. Any QB in his system is going to be hamstrung. So honestly I cannot say whether he is overrated or underrated. Conversely, any RB in Cam's system is going to be big time highlighted, so naturally overvalued as HoustonRaven correctly says.

    I will say certain aspects of individual players games are underrated or overrated. I'd say that Ray Rice as a runner is slightly overrated... lack of breakaway speed, doesnt maximum the gain when little yardage is available, and is not great in short yardage situ-s. Conversely, his contribution in the pass-game is underrated. He is a dynamic weapon that just isn't praised enough.

    Flacco's accuracy is underrated. He is extremely accurate. I'd say his grasp of knowing what the defense is doing each play is overrated. He needs to improve this.

    Other Overrated/Underrated Aspects of Individuals...

    Ray's value in pass coverage.. Way overrated... Honestly should be off the field.
    Boldin's ability to separate from DB -- Overrated
    LWebb's coverage skills --- Underrated
    Ngata's ability to beat doubleteam blocking --- Way underrated
    Sam Koch pinning teams inside the 10 --- Underrated (although I will say 2010, he was AMAZING at it... 2011 he wasn't as adept)
    Suggs passrushing prowess -- Slightly Overrated -- He is really good but not in the class of a Ware/Freeney/Allen/Cole at that specific skillset. Still think he feasts on weaker OTs and gets his Sacks numbers during those games (+ Pitt games when BigBen holds the ball too long) but does get shutdown by the best OTs in the league. (Look I'm not commenting on Suggs as the complete package b/c I think he is the best DE/Hybrid OLB against the run in the NFL)




  2. #77
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    How about the whole offensive line?

    The media and people outside our fan base (especially the Steeler fans) seem to have a notion that our offensive line is a top ten unit in the league. This was the case from 08 to 09, but since then our offensive line has been poor to average. We have had some overrated players on our line, and it has not helped the development of Joe Flacco or even Ray Rice lately. 2010 we where perhaps one of the worst units in the league, in 2011 we where better but nothing special.




  3. #78
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    I think the problem with rating Flacco is we really don't know his full potential in Cam's offense. Any QB in his system is going to be hamstrung. So honestly I cannot say whether he is overrated or underrated. Conversely, any RB in Cam's system is going to be big time highlighted, so naturally overvalued as HoustonRaven correctly says.
    Really? There have been several games where Rice has pretty much been a ghost to Cam, and in those games we have almost always lost. I would say Ray is slightly overrated as a runner outside of our fan base, and by the media, but probably not in our own fan base. When Ray breaks the first line of defense, that is when he is so dangerous, you cannot overrate that. He does need to work harder on getting those short yards too though.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Ray's value in pass coverage.. Way overrated... Honestly should be off the field.
    I disagree with that, I think his pass coverage is underrated if anything, he is always getting bashed by other fans or the media for being some how poor in pass coverage, when actually he allowed fewer completions in his area than both Brian Cushing and Patrick Willis in 2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Boldin's ability to separate from DB -- Overrated
    Is it really though? I'm pretty sure whenever I see something said about Boldin, his weakness of getting seperation is always highlighted, I don't think it's overrated nor underrated, he just isn't good at that aspect of the game and everyone knows it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Suggs passrushing prowess -- Slightly Overrated -- He is really good but not in the class of a Ware/Freeney/Allen/Cole at that specific skillset. Still think he feasts on weaker OTs and gets his Sacks numbers during those games (+ Pitt games when BigBen holds the ball too long) but does get shutdown by the best OTs in the league. (Look I'm not commenting on Suggs as the complete package b/c I think he is the best DE/Hybrid OLB against the run in the NFL)
    Very true, he isn't as good as the Jarred Allen or DeMarcus Ware type pass rushers at getting to the QB, he isn't that great as a pass rusher. But IMO as you say, he is probably a better overall player then all of them, and much better at defending the run, causing turnovers or making big plays (causing fumbles, intercepting passes etc.)




  4. #79

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Really? There have been several games where Rice has pretty much been a ghost to Cam, and in those games we have almost always lost. I would say Ray is slightly overrated as a runner outside of our fan base, and by the media, but probably not in our own fan base. When Ray breaks the first line of defense, that is when he is so dangerous, you cannot overrate that. He does need to work harder on getting those short yards too though.
    I think rice is overrated as a runner by fans and people outside of Baltimore. I think he looks for the splash play too much instead of following his blockers and getting 3-4 yards. For every time he has had a big play there are at least a dozen other players where he has left the offense in 2nd 9 or 3rd and 8. It hurt the team big time in two situations against NWE and almost cost the Ravens the game against Houston where he could not convert short yardage situations. He needs to do a better job of getting the tough yards. Getting the tough yards is just as important as breaking the big play.

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    How about the whole offensive line?

    The media and people outside our fan base (especially the Steeler fans) seem to have a notion that our offensive line is a top ten unit in the league. This was the case from 08 to 09, but since then our offensive line has been poor to average. We have had some overrated players on our line, and it has not helped the development of Joe Flacco or even Ray Rice lately. 2010 we where perhaps one of the worst units in the league, in 2011 we where better but nothing special.
    I would agree with this. The Oline is way overrated. Grubbs and Birk are way overrated as is Oher who has been discussed. I really think it is a product of coaching more than the players. The steelers put together a line every year with 2nd stringers and retreads and by the end of the year they are playing well.
    [/QUOTE]




  5. #80
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    The most overrated Raven is the next guy the Ravens sign off the street. Half the posters here will talk the guy up like he's the next great find and is going to be the key to the offense or defense this year - maybe even a Pro Bowler.

    Then the guy will sit the bench or be waived.




  6. #81

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    The most overrated Raven is the next guy the Ravens sign off the street. Half the posters here will talk the guy up like he's the next great find and is going to be the key to the offense or defense this year - maybe even a Pro Bowler.

    Then the guy will sit the bench or be waived.
    or drop a sure td to win the afc championship

    example: http://ravens24x7.com/forum/showthre...-Evans-a-Raven
    Last edited by Sgt CouchPotato; 06-29-2012 at 08:05 PM.




  7. #82
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    There are a few different meanings of "overrated" being thrown around in here.

    First, there's the "overrated" that comes with being a superstar on the downslope of your career. You can argue that Matt Birk, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed all show signs of this. They are not the players they once were, but I hardly think that's worth calling them overrated... "declined" would be a better term. Every one of them is worth their starting position... if not necessarily the superstar status they've retained through their slow descent.

    Second, there's the "overrated" that comes with being known to be great, but when there's still a question of just how great. Ray Rice is a phenomenal player. He gets a lot of flak on here for being called elite when it's a measure of his overall game and not of one defining skill. He's a total package... not the fastest runner or the strongest or the smartest or the best receiver or the best blocker but so good at all of those things that he's better as a whole than everyone else (or most everyone else) in the league. He's not overrated unless you insist he's the very best and you wouldn't take an Adrian Peterson or Arian Foster over him under any circumstances.

    Third, there's the "overrated" that is most accurate: being generally credited for being better than you are or EVER were. That's Michael Oher. Oher is not a bad player and we're a better team with him on the field... at right tackle, blocking the second-best pass rusher and being a mauler in the running game. He's hyped up as some awesome LT prototype, but he's really not. He certainly shouldn't be receiving Pro Bowl consideration. He's easily the right answer to this question.

    Pollard, Ellerbe, and McClain are not well-known enough to be overrated by anyone other than hardcore Raven fan optimists.

    Anquan Boldin could be seen as overrated, but he could more accurately be seen as misused, or perhaps just not being allowed to live up to his full potential. More on that in a moment.

    Joe Flacco is not overrated. Very much the opposite. First, there's the four consecutive seasons with playoff wins. That doesn't happen by chance and it sure as hell doesn't happen by virtue of your supporting cast alone, or Kyle Boller would still be quarterbacking here after taking us to multiple Super Bowls. Second, there's the fact that he's done that in his first four seasons, during his growing process. We underrate him because he started off so good that we expected him to become a premium QB soon after, and the weight of our expectations is simply too much. He's not the best quarterback in the league, probably not in the top five... but he's good enough to win with our team and to win a Super Bowl. He came within one drop of us being there this past year. We might get there this year... or we might not. Who knows? But we won't go into a tailspin and fall to 6-10 because of him. Not even without Suggs... not unless a lot more people get hurt or begin to suck.

    Joe Flacco is underrated because people see the wins, they see his stats, and they assume that it must not have anything to do with him. Most QBs with those stats are mediocre players on mediocre or bad teams. Joe Flacco has those stats because those are the stats he needs to win. Would you rather see him be Matt Stafford, needing 5000 yards to get a team to 10-6? When we have a lead in the second half, we slow things down, grind out the game, go home with the W. We don't put it up in the air for Joe to get another 100 yards to satisfy his critics. Yeah, sometimes this bites us in the ass... but Joe doesn't call the plays and he certainly isn't given the authority for a wholesale strategic change when he feels the game's momentum turning. And he's had a few bad games along the way, not come through in situations where we needed him to author a comeback or just make something, anything happen to avoid squandering a strong defensive outing. But all that doesn't add up to him being overrated.

    Joe Flacco can throw for 4500 yards this season if he has to... but that would mean that our defense is letting up 30+ points a game and we're having to outrace every opposing offense. No one here wants to see that. I just know that if Flacco had a Calvin Johnson or an Andre Johnson or a Roddy White like the other QBs in his perceived tier, we wouldn't be having this same conversation. Anquan Boldin was always excellent... as a #2 receiver. Torrey Smith has breakout potential as a DeSean Jackson or Mike Wallace deep threat, but he's not going to be the complete package. If we're ever able to find that guy for Flacco... watch out.




  8. #83
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    There are a few different meanings of "overrated" being thrown around in here.

    First, there's the "overrated" that comes with being a superstar on the downslope of your career. You can argue that Matt Birk, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed all show signs of this. They are not the players they once were, but I hardly think that's worth calling them overrated... "declined" would be a better term. Every one of them is worth their starting position... if not necessarily the superstar status they've retained through their slow descent.

    Second, there's the "overrated" that comes with being known to be great, but when there's still a question of just how great. Ray Rice is a phenomenal player. He gets a lot of flak on here for being called elite when it's a measure of his overall game and not of one defining skill. He's a total package... not the fastest runner or the strongest or the smartest or the best receiver or the best blocker but so good at all of those things that he's better as a whole than everyone else (or most everyone else) in the league. He's not overrated unless you insist he's the very best and you wouldn't take an Adrian Peterson or Arian Foster over him under any circumstances.

    Third, there's the "overrated" that is most accurate: being generally credited for being better than you are or EVER were. That's Michael Oher. Oher is not a bad player and we're a better team with him on the field... at right tackle, blocking the second-best pass rusher and being a mauler in the running game. He's hyped up as some awesome LT prototype, but he's really not. He certainly shouldn't be receiving Pro Bowl consideration. He's easily the right answer to this question.

    Pollard, Ellerbe, and McClain are not well-known enough to be overrated by anyone other than hardcore Raven fan optimists.

    Anquan Boldin could be seen as overrated, but he could more accurately be seen as misused, or perhaps just not being allowed to live up to his full potential. More on that in a moment.

    Joe Flacco is not overrated. Very much the opposite. First, there's the four consecutive seasons with playoff wins. That doesn't happen by chance and it sure as hell doesn't happen by virtue of your supporting cast alone, or Kyle Boller would still be quarterbacking here after taking us to multiple Super Bowls. Second, there's the fact that he's done that in his first four seasons, during his growing process. We underrate him because he started off so good that we expected him to become a premium QB soon after, and the weight of our expectations is simply too much. He's not the best quarterback in the league, probably not in the top five... but he's good enough to win with our team and to win a Super Bowl. He came within one drop of us being there this past year. We might get there this year... or we might not. Who knows? But we won't go into a tailspin and fall to 6-10 because of him. Not even without Suggs... not unless a lot more people get hurt or begin to suck.

    Joe Flacco is underrated because people see the wins, they see his stats, and they assume that it must not have anything to do with him. Most QBs with those stats are mediocre players on mediocre or bad teams. Joe Flacco has those stats because those are the stats he needs to win. Would you rather see him be Matt Stafford, needing 5000 yards to get a team to 10-6? When we have a lead in the second half, we slow things down, grind out the game, go home with the W. We don't put it up in the air for Joe to get another 100 yards to satisfy his critics. Yeah, sometimes this bites us in the ass... but Joe doesn't call the plays and he certainly isn't given the authority for a wholesale strategic change when he feels the game's momentum turning. And he's had a few bad games along the way, not come through in situations where we needed him to author a comeback or just make something, anything happen to avoid squandering a strong defensive outing. But all that doesn't add up to him being overrated.

    Joe Flacco can throw for 4500 yards this season if he has to... but that would mean that our defense is letting up 30+ points a game and we're having to outrace every opposing offense. No one here wants to see that. I just know that if Flacco had a Calvin Johnson or an Andre Johnson or a Roddy White like the other QBs in his perceived tier, we wouldn't be having this same conversation. Anquan Boldin was always excellent... as a #2 receiver. Torrey Smith has breakout potential as a DeSean Jackson or Mike Wallace deep threat, but he's not going to be the complete package. If we're ever able to find that guy for Flacco... watch out.




  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrosin View Post
    There are a few different meanings of "overrated" being thrown around in here.

    First, there's the "overrated" that comes with being a superstar on the downslope of your career. You can argue that Matt Birk, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed all show signs of this. They are not the players they once were, but I hardly think that's worth calling them overrated... "declined" would be a better term. Every one of them is worth their starting position... if not necessarily the superstar status they've retained through their slow descent.

    Second, there's the "overrated" that comes with being known to be great, but when there's still a question of just how great. Ray Rice is a phenomenal player. He gets a lot of flak on here for being called elite when it's a measure of his overall game and not of one defining skill. He's a total package... not the fastest runner or the strongest or the smartest or the best receiver or the best blocker but so good at all of those things that he's better as a whole than everyone else (or most everyone else) in the league. He's not overrated unless you insist he's the very best and you wouldn't take an Adrian Peterson or Arian Foster over him under any circumstances.

    Third, there's the "overrated" that is most accurate: being generally credited for being better than you are or EVER were. That's Michael Oher. Oher is not a bad player and we're a better team with him on the field... at right tackle, blocking the second-best pass rusher and being a mauler in the running game. He's hyped up as some awesome LT prototype, but he's really not. He certainly shouldn't be receiving Pro Bowl consideration. He's easily the right answer to this question.

    Pollard, Ellerbe, and McClain are not well-known enough to be overrated by anyone other than hardcore Raven fan optimists.

    Anquan Boldin could be seen as overrated, but he could more accurately be seen as misused, or perhaps just not being allowed to live up to his full potential. More on that in a moment.

    Joe Flacco is not overrated. Very much the opposite. First, there's the four consecutive seasons with playoff wins. That doesn't happen by chance and it sure as hell doesn't happen by virtue of your supporting cast alone, or Kyle Boller would still be quarterbacking here after taking us to multiple Super Bowls. Second, there's the fact that he's done that in his first four seasons, during his growing process. We underrate him because he started off so good that we expected him to become a premium QB soon after, and the weight of our expectations is simply too much. He's not the best quarterback in the league, probably not in the top five... but he's good enough to win with our team and to win a Super Bowl. He came within one drop of us being there this past year. We might get there this year... or we might not. Who knows? But we won't go into a tailspin and fall to 6-10 because of him. Not even without Suggs... not unless a lot more people get hurt or begin to suck.

    Joe Flacco is underrated because people see the wins, they see his stats, and they assume that it must not have anything to do with him. Most QBs with those stats are mediocre players on mediocre or bad teams. Joe Flacco has those stats because those are the stats he needs to win. Would you rather see him be Matt Stafford, needing 5000 yards to get a team to 10-6? When we have a lead in the second half, we slow things down, grind out the game, go home with the W. We don't put it up in the air for Joe to get another 100 yards to satisfy his critics. Yeah, sometimes this bites us in the ass... but Joe doesn't call the plays and he certainly isn't given the authority for a wholesale strategic change when he feels the game's momentum turning. And he's had a few bad games along the way, not come through in situations where we needed him to author a comeback or just make something, anything happen to avoid squandering a strong defensive outing. But all that doesn't add up to him being overrated.

    Joe Flacco can throw for 4500 yards this season if he has to... but that would mean that our defense is letting up 30+ points a game and we're having to outrace every opposing offense. No one here wants to see that. I just know that if Flacco had a Calvin Johnson or an Andre Johnson or a Roddy White like the other QBs in his perceived tier, we wouldn't be having this same conversation. Anquan Boldin was always excellent... as a #2 receiver. Torrey Smith has breakout potential as a DeSean Jackson or Mike Wallace deep threat, but he's not going to be the complete package. If we're ever able to find that guy for Flacco... watch out.
    Great post!

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2




  10. #85

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Our signing of Boldin is akin to signing C.C. Sabathia and having him play 3rd base. Before we signed him, Bolding was one of the best in the league at quick slants and other short passes that he turned into big plays. Despite our struggles against the blitz, the quick slant and hot routes aren't in the playbook.

    As far as the most over-rated Raven is concerned, in my opinion its Matt Birk. He was terrible down the stretch last year, but still receives the high acolades.
    Have to agree, at this point I dont see Anquan playing for more than one more season here in Bmore. He has had far too many drops last season, unless this doesnt change , Flacco will target Torrey all season long as he is by far the most dangerous WR on this team. Im curious to see what Streeter will bring, Lewis' influence should also speed up his development. As both trained together this offseason.




  11. #86
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by defence84 View Post
    Have to agree, at this point I dont see Anquan playing for more than one more season here in Bmore. He has had far too many drops last season, unless this doesnt change , Flacco will target Torrey all season long as he is by far the most dangerous WR on this team. Im curious to see what Streeter will bring, Lewis' influence should also speed up his development. As both trained together this offseason.
    I think you are being too optimistic here. Boldin has two years left on his contract, and the Ravens aren't just going to cut him because he's earning a lot of money and not putting up pro bowl type numbers that everyone wants to see. Right now, we don't really know what we have behind Boldin and Smith, we do have Jacoby Jones who is a below average receiver, and other than that a bunch of unproven rookies/second year players. Unless one or more of the young receivers step up and prove they can go straight away into the #2 position, there is a very low chance that Boldin gets cut. He is still a reliable receiver who can make crucial plays for you no matter what anybody says. I think Torrey Smith will be the main guy, but to say he will be by far the most dangerous weapon is also way too optimistic at this point.




  12. #87

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    I didnt say the most dangerous weapon, this should be Rice again, but the best WR. If I take last season and considering the fact that Torrey had a full offseason to work on his technique he could post up pro bowl like numbers. But this is not college where players tend to make huge strides every season,this is the NFL it either goes up or down, we surely have to see what kinda production the other Receivers bring, especially Streeter caught my eye, and of course how Pitta and Dickson(!) will develop. If Smith progresses like last season its hard to believe that he will stay on his current contract which brings me back to Anquan's money.




  13. #88
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    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    The only overrated guy I see on this team is Ellerbe. I still can't believe the team decided to keep him under the expensive RFA tender after they resigned McClain. The AFC Championship game was a blueprint on how to exploit Ellerbe every time he's out there in the middle. I never understood the hype that made him a fan favorite and based on how he's paid, a team favorite as well.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  14. #89

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The only overrated guy I see on this team is Ellerbe. I still can't believe the team decided to keep him under the expensive RFA tender after they resigned McClain. The AFC Championship game was a blueprint on how to exploit Ellerbe every time he's out there in the middle. I never understood the hype that made him a fan favorite and based on how he's paid, a team favorite as well.
    I agree. It's a headscratcher. It's clear they value him more than the fans. They must see something in him. Maybe at the end of the day they just feel he's "underrated".




  15. #90

    Re: In your opinion: Who is the most overrated Raven?

    Quote Originally Posted by pslholder96 View Post
    I agree. It's a headscratcher. It's clear they value him more than the fans. They must see something in him. Maybe at the end of the day they just feel he's "underrated".
    promising rookie year, doghoused, injured... jurys still out. i could see the "overrated" argument if people were calling for him to replace Ray Lewis, but i dont see/hear that. im definitely in the minority for feeling he has potential and more so that he can even be a starter, so im not sure who exactly would be praising him and to the degree to warrant being overrated. If anything I think youre right that the coaches feel hes underrated, which would explain the tag and continued belief in him.
    -JAB




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