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Thread: Fast And Furious
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Re: Fast And Furious
:word
Not surprising he would come here with such BS. The reason the LIV thinks this is a non-issue is just becuase what Houston posted.
Personally, I don't think they would be stupid enough to put BHO's name on any documents. But you gotta wonder why he would pull this move when all that will happen to Holder is basically a slap on the wrist.
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06-21-2012, 12:08 AM #26
Re: Fast And Furious
Actually, I think this is coming with more than a slap on the wrist. It's not just withholding documents, Holder flat out lied to Congress on when he knew about F&F. And as people not named Roger Clements knows, lying to Congress is not a great idea.
What I still am trying to figure out is why would Obama, who said on camera he found out about F&F "in the news", all of a sudden inject an executive privilege that really don't even apply here if he is telling the truth? What are in these documents that the House Judiciary Committee cannot see? What are in these documents that the President doesn't want to be seen?
And anyone who thinks 1) the only person who cares about this is Rep. Issa, and 2) this is going to go away quickly, is beyond delusional into a whole different realm of Barack Obama sycophantism.
I'm pretty sure Brian Terry's parents care about this. They made that very clear in the statement they sent to the HJC today.
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06-21-2012, 12:12 AM #27
Re: Fast And Furious
BTW. Speaking of "This guy" as he is so lovingly referred to by lefties. This was the statement his family sent to Congress today.
But you know, his family is probably just on a witchhunt or something. In fact, he probably deserved it right?
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Re: Fast And Furious
1. I don't see how you can say that this is a political non-issue. If Obama chopped off on some authorizations that allowed US ATF agents to knowingly give semi & auto weapons to some of the most vicious and violent people in the world and it resulted in American casualties, that is a HUGE political issue. I don't see it as a make-or-break for Obama in the long run, but it really makes you question the decision making there. The fact that there is an obvious attempt at a cover-up here makes it even worse.
2. The Border Patrol agent's (his name was Brian Terry, btw) death was absolutely linked to this program because it was a gun that was authorized by this program to pass into the hands of the cartel that killed him. Ballistics already proved that much. Would he have been killed anyway? Sure, it's possible, but again that's not the point.
3. Mexican cartels are akin to small time drug dealers, huh? Wow. :grbac: We're not talking about a bunch of thugs running around "beefing" over disputed territory or anything. These cartels are no different than Al Qaeda except they're better trained, better funded, and better organized. I wish I could tell you guys some of the things I've seen with these cartels, but just take it from me that many feel that they are the current biggest threat to national security right now. Drug trafficking is just the tip of the iceberg man. They are far, far, FAR more sophisticated than that and they are much more capable than most realize.Last edited by wickedsolo; 06-21-2012 at 07:06 AM.
Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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06-21-2012, 08:41 AM #29
Re: Fast And Furious
I don't expect the others on this thread to accept truthful conclusions when the truth runs contrary to what they really, really want to be true. You seem capable of flexibilty in thought so I will address your incorrect understandings here.
First of all there is no evidence that Obama did anything so, like the rest on this board, you can froth at the mouth at the chance that maybe "we got him" but that is a pipe dream.
In the end, Holder's statement in November 2011 rings with a reasoned explanantion to me:
Eleven months after the shooting, Holder told a Senate panel on Nov. 8, 2011, that "any instance of so-called gun walking is simply unacceptable" and that "regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious, which was launched to combat gun trafficking and violence on our Southwest border."
It was nothing more than a botched ATF program that at its roots, was a typical law enforcement strategy to understand the "systems" of criminality. It was botched but not illegal or unconstitutional or communist or marxist and in the end Holder and Obama, albeit black Americans, are still Americans. Not saying that you Wicked are doubting that just saying the unprecedented disrespect to these two offices is unparallelled to the point that my personal opinion has been and will continue to be that much of the anger in this country in the past 3.5 years has racism at its roots. I'm sure the LIVs will be aghast!
So not true! But watching Sean Hannity will certainly make you think so. Again, not saying you watch Hannity.
Read here:
http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...istics-tests-/
By all accounts, Fast and Furious weapons were found at the scene of a U.S. agent's death. Dewhurst's campaign was emphatic, though, that ballistics tests confirmed that the weapons killed the agent. We found no information indicating that's so. Dewhurst's statement rates False.
Read the ballistics report here:
http://documents.latimes.com/ballistics-report-atf/
There is zero, ziltch, Haloti Ngata, evidence that a F&F weapon killed Brian Terry or ANY AMERICAN for that matter.
Nice try but I never made that comparison. I did compare the law strategies as similar in that law enforcement will overlook particular crimes in order to understand the general flow of that particular crime better and understand the systems of criminality better. Guns were allowed to flow across the border to better understand this flow. Was it a good idea? I am not in a position to truly make that judgement. I think I can say it was botched but the killing one border agent in a firefight will people trying to enter the country illegally is strong intellectual leap to end up with a wet dream over Obama's impeachment.
In the end, let's be honest with the facts and work from that point forward. If the rest want to get all ginned up on a chance to get the black men out of D.C., then by all means let them have their quitoxic play with Fox News. It just makes them look silly in the end.
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Re: Fast And Furious
Oh Galen, you sad sad little man. I love how you try to create arguments that don't exist. No one is really claiming BHO is part of this, they/I want to know why he invoked executive privilege of the documents if it's something that he had knowledge of when he said he didn't. Care to address that point?
Everyone knows that this will drag on in the courts for so long it would be after the election, so no on is claiming "we got him". Another argument no one is making.
That's not saying much, you probably agree with Sheila Jackson Lee too that it's George Bush's fault
Wait.. who was it that was throwing claims of race baiting a few threads back?
Do you ever get tired of being predictable and using race when you have no leg to stand on?
It is true that ballistics were inconclusive, but it is true that weapons linked to the program were found at the scene, which means it's not a huge leap to conclude that the people who killed him at one point used these weapons, and maybe used them to kill him.
Again, trying to argue a point no one is making but you? I wonder what you'd have to defend Obama if it weren't for the race card.
There was a Simpsons episode years and years and YEARS ago where Homer was on trial and when all appeared to be lost, he told his lawyer, "Quick play the race card" the lawyer said "but Homer your white" which Homer replies "play it, play it" as he shakes his fist. That is exactly what you remind me of Galen.. man I wish I could find that clip...
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Re: Fast And Furious
Galen is just preaching the party line. A DEM congress woman said last night if not for that death we wouldn't even be hearing about it.
Galen slaps FOX w/o knowing what they say. They said last night that GOP could be making same mistake as they did in Monica Lewinsky in reaching too far to remove Clinton which didn't happen.
The night before the same people said GOP didn't want this as an issue because it was taking the
focus off the campaign and jobs/economy.
O'Rawley was critical of the investigations and a long time ago he said those who think
Global Warming is just a theory are idiots. That was right out of Galen's Taoist hand book.
Another DEM on FOX the guy with the suspenders all the time said it was nothing and the Congressional GOPs were asking for documents they had no business demanding, so as usual, Galen knows not what he speaks. He should be praising FOX for it's objectivity. You get none of that
with his MSNBC or the alphabet networks. And guess who Maher took his latest c-word shot at?Last edited by AirFlacco; 06-21-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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Re: Fast And Furious
It turns out yesterday that HOlder offered a last minute deal with the GOPs that he would just "brief" them on the missing documents if they marked their subpoenaes as met. They said no way.
So they went forth with the contempt. Funny how OBY said he knew nothing about it and then he
suddenly invokes executive privilege. Uh huh.
As for not having the right to ask for them as the liberal on Fox said, when you are investigating
something and you are the official investigator you can ask for anything you think will have facts
in the case. If it goes to court the judge will throw it out.
A special investigator has even more, let see how did Billick put it, oh yea lattitude, in demanding
stuff.
These liberals don't have a clue and keep dragging the country down.Last edited by AirFlacco; 06-21-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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06-21-2012, 11:40 AM #33
Re: Fast And Furious
Houston, whenever Galen goes into "talking point" mode I realize that he has nothing. And so as a good liberal taking his marching orders, he reverts back to the two pathetic plays in the playbook. 1) Fox News, blah blah, 2) We're all racists. It's at that point that I stop taking him seriously. I laughed out loud though when he tried to actually use Politifact as a source.
No amount of race-baiting by Galen will ever obscure the fact that Eric Holder is withholding information. However it is also easy to show that Galen has not watched or paid attention to a single thing going on, and he's just regurgitating talking points. For example:
First of all there is no evidence that Obama did anything so, like the rest on this board, you can froth at the mouth at the chance that maybe "we got him" but that is a pipe dream.
There is zero, ziltch, Haloti Ngata, evidence that a F&F weapon killed Brian Terry or ANY AMERICAN for that matter.
Everyone knows Brian Terry was killed as a result of these guns walking into the hands of the cartel. Only leftists who dehumanize Terry as just "This guy" don't want to understand that because it pulls away from the narrative that this is some witch hunt. Which is also funny because if Eric Holder had just given the Committee what it asked for, there wouldn't have been all this.
Again, Galen can run with the sad and pathetic liberal meme that everything against Obama is because he's black. In lefty circles right now, this is really all they have to cling to at the moment. Since independent thinking people reject that crap outright, it's not a big deal. If he thinks it's going away anytime soon, let him live in that fantasy land.
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06-21-2012, 01:26 PM #34
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06-21-2012, 01:46 PM #36
Re: Fast And Furious
I think it is funny and this should be referred to as "NC Think" for now on because you do it to a nauseating level.
Let's diagram the logic of "NC Think" so we all are onboard:
Step One: We will call it Setting up the rational argument
ex. Step Two: We will call it Inserting the irrational contradiction (catnip)
ex. In other words, No one is saying Obama is involved, except there must be some Obama conspiracy because (just like every President prior to him) he is invoking executive privilege.
other examples:
I have nothing against gays, I just don't want them to get married
I believe women should be treated equally, I just don't want them making decisions about their reproductive healthcare.
I believe Obama was born in America; I just don't understand why he won't show his birth certificate for the third time?
Again, NC Think:
Step 1: Setting up the rational argument
Step 2: Insert the irrational catnip
In other words; There was no proof these guns killed any Americans but if we make the suggestion enough times, LIVS will believe it.
I'm really am a logical independent thinker; I just like to believe everything that is anti-Obama administration. I like round holes; I just need to squeeze this square peg in thoughLast edited by Galen Sevinne; 06-21-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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