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  1. #1
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    Fast And Furious



    Anybody paying attention to what's going on with that?

    Grassley has a good point.

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/vie...-Fast-Furious-

    Is BHO just protecting Holder or is he covering up his own involvement?
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  2. #2
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    Re: Fast And Furious

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  3. #3
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    I think that there are probably a fair amount of legitimate reasons why they opted to hold onto that documentation. I'm sure that Obama was involved at some point. I also think that they're holding onto everything because of the amount of weapons that they essentially supplied Mexican cartels.

    What a great idea, huh?

    Give some of the most dangerous men on the continent easy access to automatic weapons.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think that there are probably a fair amount of legitimate reasons why they opted to hold onto that documentation. I'm sure that Obama was involved at some point. I also think that they're holding onto everything because of the amount of weapons that they essentially supplied Mexican cartels.

    What a great idea, huh?

    Give some of the most dangerous men on the continent easy access to automatic weapons.
    Some think that it was on purpose so that they could say, look how easy it is for Drug Cartels to get weapons from America... "We need tighter gun control laws"
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #5
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Some think that it was on purpose so that they could say, look how easy it is for Drug Cartels to get weapons from America... "We need tighter gun control laws"
    That just kind of makes me chuckle.

    It's such a backwards way of looking at gun control.

    "Hey take these ecstasy pills to a high school and illegally give them out to all of the students...this way we can show the high school how many kids use illegal synthetic drugs..."

    In any other arena this could potentially be entrapment.

    This is why the gubberment makes me smdh sometimes. Incredible. Only they could get away with illegally trafficking firearms across international borders and not have to answer for it when it backfires and American citizens get killed.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    That just kind of makes me chuckle.

    It's such a backwards way of looking at gun control.

    "Hey take these ecstasy pills to a high school and illegally give them out to all of the students...this way we can show the high school how many kids use illegal synthetic drugs..."

    In any other arena this could potentially be entrapment.

    This is why the gubberment makes me smdh sometimes. Incredible. Only they could get away with illegally trafficking firearms across international borders and not have to answer for it when it backfires and American citizens get killed.
    And the funny thing about gun control... the only people it affects are the people who already abide by the laws on the books. The people who don't now won't follow any new ones either.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #7
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    And the funny thing about gun control... the only people it affects are the people who already abide by the laws on the books. The people who don't now won't follow any new ones either.
    Nope.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    I think what HR is saying is that the program itself began under Bush as Wide Receiver, but became Fast and Furious under Obama. And as your link correctly states, the issue here isn't with Wide Receiver. It's with Fast and Furious, and the lying and hiding from the AG.

    I want to know why Obama invoked executive privilege on documents he says he never saw or was part of. And what is in these documents that Holder and Obama doesn't want Congress to see?

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4G63 View Post
    No, it wasn't. And HERE.
    What Stinger said.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #10
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    Something that's important in all of this is the obvious media bias.

    Not one MSM outlet has done any substantive reporting on this.

    You bet your ass they'd be all over this story if it was W.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #11
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    you guys watch too much fox. this is such a political non-issue. The guys unfortunate death can't even be linked to the program. Its akin to law enforcement allowing small time drug dealers to continue to sell in order to understand the network better. Yes the program was a bad idea at worst and but if think Obama is behind this, you will be sorely disappointed. The only person who seems to really care is Issa. Outside of him, it only catnip for the LIVs.

    Enjoy it while you can.








  12. #12
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    you guys watch too much fox. this is such a political non-issue. The guys unfortunate death can't even be linked to the program. Its akin to law enforcement allowing small time drug dealers to continue to sell in order to understand the network better. Yes the program was a bad idea at worst and but if think Obama is behind this, you will be sorely disappointed. The only person who seems to really care is Issa. Outside of him, it only catnip for the LIVs.

    Enjoy it while you can.
    1. I don't see how you can say that this is a political non-issue. If Obama chopped off on some authorizations that allowed US ATF agents to knowingly give semi & auto weapons to some of the most vicious and violent people in the world and it resulted in American casualties, that is a HUGE political issue. I don't see it as a make-or-break for Obama in the long run, but it really makes you question the decision making there. The fact that there is an obvious attempt at a cover-up here makes it even worse.

    2. The Border Patrol agent's (his name was Brian Terry, btw) death was absolutely linked to this program because it was a gun that was authorized by this program to pass into the hands of the cartel that killed him. Ballistics already proved that much. Would he have been killed anyway? Sure, it's possible, but again that's not the point.

    3. Mexican cartels are akin to small time drug dealers, huh? Wow. We're not talking about a bunch of thugs running around "beefing" over disputed territory or anything. These cartels are no different than Al Qaeda except they're better trained, better funded, and better organized. I wish I could tell you guys some of the things I've seen with these cartels, but just take it from me that many feel that they are the current biggest threat to national security right now. Drug trafficking is just the tip of the iceberg man. They are far, far, FAR more sophisticated than that and they are much more capable than most realize.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 06-21-2012 at 07:06 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    I don't expect the others on this thread to accept truthful conclusions when the truth runs contrary to what they really, really want to be true. You seem capable of flexibilty in thought so I will address your incorrect understandings here.


    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    1. I don't see how you can say that this is a political non-issue. If Obama chopped off on some authorizations that allowed US ATF agents to knowingly give semi & auto weapons to some of the most vicious and violent people in the world and it resulted in American casualties, that is a HUGE political issue. I don't see it as a make-or-break for Obama in the long run, but it really makes you question the decision making there. The fact that there is an obvious attempt at a cover-up here makes it even worse.
    First of all there is no evidence that Obama did anything so, like the rest on this board, you can froth at the mouth at the chance that maybe "we got him" but that is a pipe dream.

    In the end, Holder's statement in November 2011 rings with a reasoned explanantion to me:


    Eleven months after the shooting, Holder told a Senate panel on Nov. 8, 2011, that "any instance of so-called gun walking is simply unacceptable" and that "regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious, which was launched to combat gun trafficking and violence on our Southwest border."

    It was nothing more than a botched ATF program that at its roots, was a typical law enforcement strategy to understand the "systems" of criminality. It was botched but not illegal or unconstitutional or communist or marxist and in the end Holder and Obama, albeit black Americans, are still Americans. Not saying that you Wicked are doubting that just saying the unprecedented disrespect to these two offices is unparallelled to the point that my personal opinion has been and will continue to be that much of the anger in this country in the past 3.5 years has racism at its roots. I'm sure the LIVs will be aghast!


    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    2. The Border Patrol agent's (his name was Brian Terry, btw) death was absolutely linked to this program because it was a gun that was authorized by this program to pass into the hands of the cartel that killed him. Ballistics already proved that much. Would he have been killed anyway? Sure, it's possible, but again that's not the point.
    So not true! But watching Sean Hannity will certainly make you think so. Again, not saying you watch Hannity.

    Read here:

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...istics-tests-/

    By all accounts, Fast and Furious weapons were found at the scene of a U.S. agent's death. Dewhurst's campaign was emphatic, though, that ballistics tests confirmed that the weapons killed the agent. We found no information indicating that's so. Dewhurst's statement rates False.

    Read the ballistics report here:

    http://documents.latimes.com/ballistics-report-atf/

    There is zero, ziltch, Haloti Ngata, evidence that a F&F weapon killed Brian Terry or ANY AMERICAN for that matter.



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    3. Mexican cartels are akin to small time drug dealers, huh? Wow. We're not talking about a bunch of thugs running around "beefing" over disputed territory or anything. These cartels are no different than Al Qaeda except they're better trained, better funded, and better organized. I wish I could tell you guys some of the things I've seen with these cartels, but just take it from me that many feel that they are the current biggest threat to national security right now. Drug trafficking is just the tip of the iceberg man. They are far, far, FAR more sophisticated than that and they are much more capable than most realize.
    Nice try but I never made that comparison. I did compare the law strategies as similar in that law enforcement will overlook particular crimes in order to understand the general flow of that particular crime better and understand the systems of criminality better. Guns were allowed to flow across the border to better understand this flow. Was it a good idea? I am not in a position to truly make that judgement. I think I can say it was botched but the killing one border agent in a firefight will people trying to enter the country illegally is strong intellectual leap to end up with a wet dream over Obama's impeachment.

    In the end, let's be honest with the facts and work from that point forward. If the rest want to get all ginned up on a chance to get the black men out of D.C., then by all means let them have their quitoxic play with Fox News. It just makes them look silly in the end.








  14. #14
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    Re: Fast And Furious

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I don't expect the others on this thread to accept truthful conclusions when the truth runs contrary to what they really, really want to be true. You seem capable of flexibilty in thought so I will address your incorrect understandings here.
    Oh Galen, you sad sad little man. I love how you try to create arguments that don't exist. No one is really claiming BHO is part of this, they/I want to know why he invoked executive privilege of the documents if it's something that he had knowledge of when he said he didn't. Care to address that point?


    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    First of all there is no evidence that Obama did anything so, like the rest on this board, you can froth at the mouth at the chance that maybe "we got him" but that is a pipe dream.
    Everyone knows that this will drag on in the courts for so long it would be after the election, so no on is claiming "we got him". Another argument no one is making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    In the end, Holder's statement in November 2011 rings with a reasoned explanantion to me:
    That's not saying much, you probably agree with Sheila Jackson Lee too that it's George Bush's fault

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    It was nothing more than a botched ATF program that at its roots, was a typical law enforcement strategy to understand the "systems" of criminality. It was botched but not illegal or unconstitutional or communist or marxist and in the end Holder and Obama, albeit black Americans, are still Americans. Not saying that you Wicked are doubting that just saying the unprecedented disrespect to these two offices is unparallelled to the point that my personal opinion has been and will continue to be that much of the anger in this country in the past 3.5 years has racism at its roots. I'm sure the LIVs will be aghast!
    Wait.. who was it that was throwing claims of race baiting a few threads back?

    Do you ever get tired of being predictable and using race when you have no leg to stand on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    So not true! But watching Sean Hannity will certainly make you think so. Again, not saying you watch Hannity.

    Read here:
    http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...istics-tests-/

    By all accounts, Fast and Furious weapons were found at the scene of a U.S. agent's death. Dewhurst's campaign was emphatic, though, that ballistics tests confirmed that the weapons killed the agent. We found no information indicating that's so. Dewhurst's statement rates False.

    Read the ballistics report here:
    http://documents.latimes.com/ballistics-report-atf/

    There is zero, ziltch, Haloti Ngata, evidence that a F&F weapon killed Brian Terry or ANY AMERICAN for that matter.
    It is true that ballistics were inconclusive, but it is true that weapons linked to the program were found at the scene, which means it's not a huge leap to conclude that the people who killed him at one point used these weapons, and maybe used them to kill him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Nice try but I never made that comparison. I did compare the law strategies as similar in that law enforcement will overlook particular crimes in order to understand the general flow of that particular crime better and understand the systems of criminality better. Guns were allowed to flow across the border to better understand this flow. Was it a good idea? I am not in a position to truly make that judgement. I think I can say it was botched but the killing one border agent in a firefight will people trying to enter the country illegally is strong intellectual leap to end up with a wet dream over Obama's impeachment.

    In the end, let's be honest with the facts and work from that point forward. If the rest want to get all ginned up on a chance to get the black men out of D.C., then by all means let them have their quitoxic play with Fox News. It just makes them look silly in the end.
    Again, trying to argue a point no one is making but you? I wonder what you'd have to defend Obama if it weren't for the race card.

    There was a Simpsons episode years and years and YEARS ago where Homer was on trial and when all appeared to be lost, he told his lawyer, "Quick play the race card" the lawyer said "but Homer your white" which Homer replies "play it, play it" as he shakes his fist. That is exactly what you remind me of Galen.. man I wish I could find that clip...
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    you guys watch too much fox. this is such a political non-issue. The guys unfortunate death can't even be linked to the program. Its akin to law enforcement allowing small time drug dealers to continue to sell in order to understand the network better. Yes the program was a bad idea at worst and but if think Obama is behind this, you will be sorely disappointed. The only person who seems to really care is Issa. Outside of him, it only catnip for the LIVs.

    Enjoy it while you can.
    Wow.

    And by the way, not that you libs care about rule of law or the death of an American, "The guys" name is Brian Terry. He was a border patrol agent. And even the Demos on the House Committee recognize that he was killed as a result of Fast and Furious.

    Your ignorance on polling and some of your ridiculous other posts are usually knee-slappers. This makes me sick.

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    Last edited by StingerNLG; 06-20-2012 at 10:42 PM.




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