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  1. #1
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    Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...



    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...e-suspensions/


    They didn't submit their evidence on time apparently and as a result, that evidence (which the entire case is based on) cannot be included as per the CBA.


    Vilma & the gang may get their suspensions lifted after all.

    As Article 46 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement goes, there aren’t many technicalities in the appeal process. Here’s one of them, from Article 46, Section (f)(ii): “In appeals under Section 1(a), the parties shall exchange copies of any exhibits upon which they intend to rely no later than three (3) calendar days prior to the hearing. Failure to timely provide any intended exhibit shall preclude its introduction at the hearing.”

    Key language: Failure to timely provide any intended exhibit shall preclude its introduction at the hearing.


    Commissioner Roger Goodell previously scheduled the hearing in the bounty case for 10:00 a.m. ET on Monday, June 18. The NFL delivered its packet of 16 exhibits to the NFLPA at roughly 1:30 p.m. ET on Friday, June 15.


    So by failing to deliver the materials before 10:00 a.m. ET on Friday, June 15, the plain language of the CBA (i.e., “shall”) prevents the materials from being introduced at the hearing.
    If this technicality gets those guys off the hook then Roger Goodell will be the laughing stock for quite some time.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Good. This amounted to nothing more than a witch hunt.




  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Good. This amounted to nothing more than a witch hunt.
    LOL.

    Care to elaborate?
    Last edited by Sirdowski; 06-19-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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  4. #4

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    The hearing was moved to 1:45 for that very reason.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1097754

    "Scheduled for 10 a.m., it was moved to 1:45 p.m. after players took issue with the fact that they’d received the league’s evidence for review in the afternoon on June 15, instead of that morning."

    I'd love to take credit for knowing this, but someone mentioned it in the comments on the link Wicked provided. I just looked it up.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    The hearing was moved to 1:45 for that very reason.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1097754

    "Scheduled for 10 a.m., it was moved to 1:45 p.m. after players took issue with the fact that they’d received the league’s evidence for review in the afternoon on June 15, instead of that morning."

    I'd love to take credit for knowing this, but someone mentioned it in the comments on the link Wicked provided. I just looked it up.
    Interesting.
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  6. #6
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    So the had to submit the evidence no later than 3 days before the hearing.

    They submitted the evidence on the 15th for a hearing on the 18th.

    Had to take my shoes off for this one but that's exactly 3 days, hence it's not later than 3 days.

    And this is a story why?
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  7. #7
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    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    So the had to submit the evidence no later than 3 days before the hearing.

    They submitted the evidence on the 15th for a hearing on the 18th.

    Had to take my shoes off for this one but that's exactly 3 days, hence it's not later than 3 days.

    And this is a story why?
    The lawyers were apparently looking at it from the stance that the trial was supposed to start (originally) at like 10AM on Monday and they didn't receive the evidence until 1:30pm on Friday or something...so "technically" that's not 3 full calendar days.
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  8. #8

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    The lawyers were apparently looking at it from the stance that the trial was supposed to start (originally) at like 10AM on Monday and they didn't receive the evidence until 1:30pm on Friday or something...so "technically" that's not 3 full calendar days.
    Really, this is all being pushed by Florio.

    I don't dislike him like so many here seem to, but throughout this case, he has taken this as a sort of courtroom type case since he is/was a lawyer. I don't think he can help himself from throwing himself into this...looking at legalities and not understanding why certain things are done certain ways...he is having a hard time separating the reality that when you deal with an agreed CBA, the same "proof" and "procedures' that you'd see in a court room do not apply.




  9. #9
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    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Really, this is all being pushed by Florio.

    I don't dislike him like so many here seem to, but throughout this case, he has taken this as a sort of courtroom type case since he is/was a lawyer. I don't think he can help himself from throwing himself into this...looking at legalities and not understanding why certain things are done certain ways...he is having a hard time separating the reality that when you deal with an agreed CBA, the same "proof" and "procedures' that you'd see in a court room do not apply.

    No doubt.

    It was just an interesting perspective that I never thought of before and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of a technicality was being pursued to have the "charges" dropped.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  10. #10

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    well my thoughts are they never had strong evidence to begin with which is the whole reason they didnt share it (which i believe they have to share any known evidence with the defense), and missing a deadline for it to be admissible in court kind of proves that in my opinion. No case that is solely dependent upon this information would then allow it to not be admissible. If anything this may look better for Goodell than going to court with nothing and being outright destroyed by the defense and clearly over stepping his boundaries with his power. this way its a blunder but he gets to keep absolute power. these guys are being deemed guilty until proven innocent and kind of against everything we stand for here in america. just because we heard the coaches say they asked players to do things we dont like doesnt mean the players exchanged money and even if they did, it doesnt mean theres enough evidence to prove it. "Its not what you know, its what you can prove."

    quite frankly i think this whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion its ridiculous. Youre talking about a violent game where men go out and slam into each other, but doing so with one intent is ok while another isnt even if it ends in the same result, which to this point im still waiting to see a dirty play that intentionally injured another player.
    -JAB




  11. #11

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Florio again sounds too much like a failed attorney than a journalist. Here's another take: 3 days = 3 days, not that 72 hours that Florio just invented to be part of the CBA.



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    If anything this may look better for Goodell than going to court with nothing and being outright destroyed by the defense and clearly over stepping his boundaries with his power. this way its a blunder but he gets to keep absolute power. these guys are being deemed guilty until proven innocent and kind of against everything we stand for here in america.
    Interesting take. Perhaps Pash looked at all the evidence gathered, did a risk assessment for Goodell, and concluded that the hammer has come down adequately to prevent another bounty incident, so avoid the risk of having Goodell's decision overturned by a third party on substantive grounds.

    However, "clearly over stepping his boundaries with his power". Huh? Exactly how has Goodell "clearly" over-stepped his boundaries? The NFL Commissioner has the authority under league rules and the CBA to mete out punishment for players' and coaches' behavior. What has he done which "clearly" violates that authority?
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  12. #12

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Where Goodell screwed the pooch was meting out the punishments to the players. They were simply too large for the nebulous "infractions." In terms of: prior warnings being ignored, the most effective way to discourage this from happening again, where the buck stops, and where the primary responsibility lies, the Saints organization should have been the most severely punished.

    If Vilma's suspension was 4 games, Hargrove's 2 games, Smith's and Fujita's 1 game, PLUS the Saints organization was fined several million dollars, PLUS the Saints lost a few draft picks, then things would be a lot different. There still would have been appeals, but the issue would have passed by now. There wouldn't have been the same amount of league vs players animosity, and I think the chances of this behavior reoccurring (if such stiff penalties were given to the team itself) would still be zero.




  13. #13

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    Florio again sounds too much like a failed attorney than a journalist. Here's another take: 3 days = 3 days, not that 72 hours that Florio just invented to be part of the CBA.





    Interesting take. Perhaps Pash looked at all the evidence gathered, did a risk assessment for Goodell, and concluded that the hammer has come down adequately to prevent another bounty incident, so avoid the risk of having Goodell's decision overturned by a third party on substantive grounds.

    However, "clearly over stepping his boundaries with his power". Huh? Exactly how has Goodell "clearly" over-stepped his boundaries? The NFL Commissioner has the authority under league rules and the CBA to mete out punishment for players' and coaches' behavior. What has he done which "clearly" violates that authority?
    probably a little more harsh of word choice than intended, clearly being of opinion. being judge jury and executioner is too much power for anybody. Thats why we have the checks and balances system in place for our judicial system. I liked Goodell for cleaning up the game and holding the players accountable for their actions (he did a great job of it actually), but to me theres a difference in penalizing a player that gets in trouble with the law and/or is convicted by a jury vs penalizing him on his own accord without even a hearing. To me one is within his right the other, may be technically, but hes been using a gray area to do more than the intent, imo. If what happened to these guys anywhere else in America, there would be a mass uproar for injustice. Here we just assume theyre guilty and deserve it, even though theres never been anything proving the exchange of money from one player to another for an on field incentive, which is the only thing against the rules about the entire thing.

    just for consideration about whats illegal here, when players pay a younger/poorer players fine (which does happen from time to time), would you think that is considered a bounty? on field action resulting in exchange of funds amongst players, by definition of the rule, it is. to me thats a pretty lame rule.
    -JAB




  14. #14
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    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Utter bullshit, all of this. The Saints, especially Vilma to the tone of 10 Grand, singled out Brett Favre to be taken out of the game via injury. I watched that Championship Game as I am sure ALL of you had, and if you didn't think to yourself, man Favre is getting beat up beyond normal, you have zero creditably giving an opinion on football in general. Regardless of your feelings on Favre, he played the game the way it was meant to be played and will be in the Hall of Fame. For a rag tag bunch of thugs to take shots at hurting him outside the confines of the spirit of the game is beyond reprehensible and I am stunned anyone here thinks that the punishment is too severe.

    Additionally, I have seen footage of the Saints playing dirty against the Ravens, taking massive cheap shots on Flacco!

    The defense that others do it or that they are being singled out is negated by the mere fact they were warned and lied directly to the NFL and Goodell. I have no love for the man, but he is 100% in the right on this.




  15. #15

    Re: Man, Goodell and the NFL really botched this Bounty Scandal...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Where Goodell screwed the pooch was meting out the punishments to the players. They were simply too large for the nebulous "infractions." In terms of: prior warnings being ignored, the most effective way to discourage this from happening again, where the buck stops, and where the primary responsibility lies, the Saints organization should have been the most severely punished.

    If Vilma's suspension was 4 games, Hargrove's 2 games, Smith's and Fujita's 1 game, PLUS the Saints organization was fined several million dollars, PLUS the Saints lost a few draft picks, then things would be a lot different. There still would have been appeals, but the issue would have passed by now. There wouldn't have been the same amount of league vs players animosity, and I think the chances of this behavior reoccurring (if such stiff penalties were given to the team itself) would still be zero.
    id agree with that. to me its pretty obvious that Goodell is the owners employee and protecting them not only financially but from public scrutiny. Allowing such a thing to take place, or possibly even installing it in the first place, is a greater issue than what the players are being held accountable for.
    -JAB




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