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  1. #16
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred



    Everyone points to that Cosell article where he compared it to the 60's and to me that's why I don't have a lot of credibilty in Cosell sometimes. He obviously said that statement out of emotion or there is some kind of rift there. Guess in all his film watching he missed the Chargers in the 80s.

    Personally I believe the (sometimes) conservative play calling comes from Harbs and Cam is just doing what he's told. The Coryell system was developed to open up passing and can be very explosive
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  2. #17
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Everyone points to that Cosell article where he compared it to the 60's and to me that's why I don't have a lot of credibilty in Cosell sometimes. He obviously said that statement out of emotion or there is some kind of rift there. Guess in all his film watching he missed the Chargers in the 80s.

    Personally I believe the (sometimes) conservative play calling comes from Harbs and Cam is just doing what he's told. The Coryell system was developed to open up passing and can be very explosive
    I would agree with you except that Cam's version of the Coryell has never been anywhere near an explosive passing offense.

    It is almost entirely centered around the running back.
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  3. #18
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Everyone points to that Cosell article where he compared it to the 60's and to me that's why I don't have a lot of credibilty in Cosell sometimes. He obviously said that statement out of emotion or there is some kind of rift there. Guess in all his film watching he missed the Chargers in the 80s.

    Personally I believe the (sometimes) conservative play calling comes from Harbs and Cam is just doing what he's told. The Coryell system was developed to open up passing and can be very explosive
    Cam isn't running the version the Chargers ran in the 80's. He's not running what Gibbs used either which was also the same basic system that the Chargers used but a different version and just as effective. Next time they show the Ghost to the Post game on the NFL Network watch the Raiders offense. That's what Cam is running. The problem is the rules are different now and that doesn't translate well to modern times.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Everyone points to that Cosell article where he compared it to the 60's and to me that's why I don't have a lot of credibilty in Cosell sometimes. He obviously said that statement out of emotion or there is some kind of rift there. Guess in all his film watching he missed the Chargers in the 80s.

    Personally I believe the (sometimes) conservative play calling comes from Harbs and Cam is just doing what he's told. The Coryell system was developed to open up passing and can be very explosive
    I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable. Flacco threw the ball 31 times in a game where he only had 10 completions and the defense scored 3 tds, the Jets game. If I remember correctly most of those pass attempts came in the first half. In that situation, I absolutely believe Harbaugh put the breaks on the Air Flacco show, and rightfully so because it wasn't working.




  5. #20
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable. Flacco threw the ball 31 times in a game where he only had 10 completions and the defense scored 3 tds, the Jets game. If I remember correctly most of those pass attempts came in the first half. In that situation, I absolutely believe Harbaugh put the breaks on the Air Flacco show, and rightfully so because it wasn't working.
    Why should the HC have to intervene during a game where everyone, even fans watching at home, could see the gameplan was ineffective? That's my other concern with him. He has no feel for the flow of the game.




  6. #21
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable...
    Huh? That's like saying "he's a good actor, but forgets his lines." ... Bc




  7. #22
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Why should the HC have to intervene during a game where everyone, even fans watching at home, could see the gameplan was ineffective? That's my other concern with him. He has no feel for the flow of the game.
    Very true. You know who should have a great feel of the game? The guy under center. I think if Flacco were REALLY given more control and input into the offense the Ravens offense might flow a little better. Not to mention, we might be able to use the hurry up a little more, which works so well against our own defense.




  8. #23
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Very true. You know who should have a great feel of the game? The guy under center. I think if Flacco were REALLY given more control and input into the offense the Ravens offense might flow a little better. Not to mention, we might be able to use the hurry up a little more, which works so well against our own defense.
    what makes you think he can't change the play, he does it all the time
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  9. #24
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Huh? That's like saying "he's a good actor, but forgets his lines." ... Bc
    Being aggressive is not always a positive. It can be a negative when you are aggressive at the wrong time.




  10. #25
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    what makes you think he can't change the play, he does it all the time
    Where did I say that? And prove it, I mean beyond Harbaugh's coach speak.

    What I AM saying is that Flacco doesn't have nearly as much control over how the Ravens offense looks as other top QB's. Other team's seem to be able to adjust their offense and work their QB's strength's into the game plan so much that their offense is based heavily on it. The Ravens offense tries to fit square pegs into round holes, and I am not just talking about at QB either.




  11. #26
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Cosell, I thought, was well respected throughout the league.
    Also, he is not the only one who said they ran an offense from the 60s...the Texans said that is why they were so successful shutting down the Ravens in the playoff game.
    It seems every aspect of every play has to be executed to perfection for it to work.
    Flacco is always throwing into small, tight windows.
    There are so many times that Cam is predictable.

    And my biggest problem is that he has a very difficult time adapting during a game...seeing what the other team is having a problem with and being able to exploit it.
    One case is point, Pats championship game...no one on the Pats could cover Torrey deep ALL DAY and at the same time, they had Edelman paired up with Boldin. It was like he was scared to call plays to exploit either one of those obvious situations. I believed all along, that on offense, we should have came out with relatively the same game plan as the Rams game. You know what, that's all I need to say.




  12. #27
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens44 View Post
    Cosell, I thought, was well respected throughout the league.
    Also, he is not the only one who said they ran an offense from the 60s...the Texans said that is why they were so successful shutting down the Ravens in the playoff game.
    It seems every aspect of every play has to be executed to perfection for it to work.
    Flacco is always throwing into small, tight windows.
    There are so many times that Cam is predictable.

    And my biggest problem is that he has a very difficult time adapting during a game...seeing what the other team is having a problem with and being able to exploit it.
    One case is point, Pats championship game...no one on the Pats could cover Torrey deep ALL DAY and at the same time, they had Edelman paired up with Boldin. It was like he was scared to call plays to exploit either one of those obvious situations. I believed all along, that on offense, we should have came out with relatively the same game plan as the Rams game. You know what, that's all I need to say.
    Cosell is very well respected. In fact many consider him to be the best analyst out there. Part of what makes his reputation is the fact that he works for NFL Films. He doesn't have to slant things any particular way for any market. He's not told to do things a certain way by those trying to get rating on a national cable network. Cosell is pretty much unique in the media because he can call them as he sees them much like his uncle used to.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  13. #28
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    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't think Cam is conservative. He's aggressive but he lacks imagination and his playcalling is predictable.
    I guess it depends on your definition of conservative. If you think that implies the coordinator is unwilling to throw the ball and risk a turnover, then no, he's not conservative. He will throw the ball plenty. And he will throw the ball deep, attacking downfield. So in that sense you are right, conservative doesn't really fit.

    On the other hand, there have been times that he seemed to baby Flacco -- justly or unjustly, I don't know -- and not ask him to make throws into coverage. That brand of conservatism led to a predictable offense. Opponents knew it was likely an out pattern or a throw over the top, but rarely a throw in-between defenders, in traffic. Teams knew where the ball was going.

    I think another factor at work is simply style of play. Bililck used to call it his offensive profile. (In Billick's case it was justification for being a run-first team where the quarterback was asked to not make mistakes).

    The Ravens philosophy on offense seems to be built around Ray Rice, a full back, and the use of tight ends. You aren't going to look much like a Mike Martz offense when that is your primary personnel group.

    That style of play works fine when you can run the ball effectively and know you can put yourself into third and short situations. Cam can be plenty creative in those situations where he has all sorts of options to run a draw, a screen, a slant or even go deep sometimes. Teams really can't predict what he'll do in those situations. Whereas when it's third and long, Cam's playcalling does become too predictable.

    I'm not sure why, in those situations, he doesn't bring in the three or four receivers sets, or split out Rice more (which he started to do) and rely on creative route running.

    I think it comes down to trust. Cam seems to prefer max protection, keeping in a back and having the tight end at least chip block. He doesn't trust that his line can protect Joe, or that Joe can make the right read and get rid of the ball effectively under pressure.

    Is Cam wrong in believing this? Should he, in these obvious passing situations, try to put the pressure on the defense, rather than defending against the pass rush as his primary focus?

    To me, when you talk about conservatism, this is how it most aptly applies to Cam. He doesn't exactly subscribe to the old axiom that the best defense is a good offense. He doesn't make an opponent afraid to blitz. He doesn't use the maximum resources to pressure a defense in these situations...he goes more into a defensive posture and it leaves him with minimal resources to convert...and that makes him highly predictably. So defenses feel pretty comfortable they can cover and really go after the quarterback.

    Who knows if his lack of trust is warranted. I think most of us would prefer that he roll the dice a bit more in these situations and find out if his guys can get the job done in adverse conditions.

    I know this: if he does open it up on third and long and the sacks and interceptions and throw-aways come, it's Flacco we turn on instead.




  14. #29

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by RavenMaven52 View Post
    Ok thanks I'll check it out. But are we really the only team that runs this system?
    No, but we are the only team that employs Cam Cameron to run this system




  15. #30

    Re: Cam Cameron Hatred

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Just go back and find Greg Cosell's comments about how Cam's offense is a 40 year old dinosaur and how shocked he is to see it being used in the NFL. That's all you need to know
    *50 year old

    even worse




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