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  1. #31

    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?



    So why am I getting remarks for asking a legitimate question? This guy was an absolute beast of a CB who would completely shutdown a side of the field. Yet im getting comments that make it seem like im ridiculously crazy for even suggesting such a notion.




  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    So why am I getting remarks for asking a legitimate question? This guy was an absolute beast of a CB who would completely shutdown a side of the field. Yet im getting comments that make it seem like im ridiculously crazy for even suggesting such a notion.
    He was a shut down corner for three, maybe four, seasons.

    The league has been littered with guys with similar stats and don't even sniff the HoF.

    It's not personal but it's a ridiculous notion when you look at it through the lens of history.

    Again, nothing personal.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #33
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    It is the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Pretty Damn Good.




  4. #34
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    So why am I getting remarks for asking a legitimate question? This guy was an absolute beast of a CB who would completely shutdown a side of the field. Yet im getting comments that make it seem like im ridiculously crazy for even suggesting such a notion.
    Go to the Hall of Fame website. Look at the Corners who are in there and see how many interceptions they have compared with McAlister. You really need over 50 to even be considered and CMac has 26.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  5. #35
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    So why am I getting remarks for asking a legitimate question? This guy was an absolute beast of a CB who would completely shutdown a side of the field. Yet im getting comments that make it seem like im ridiculously crazy for even suggesting such a notion.
    You aren't crazy. I think it's a legitimate question. There are two seperate questions at hand here.

    Question 1: Should Chris McAlister get in the HOF? Yes, he certainly should. Here's why:

    a) The precedence is there for players who dominated their positions over a half-decade to get into Canton. CMAC dominated his position from 2000-2006, a span of seven years. Even though career length is certainly an important criteria, there have been numerous instances where players with shorter bursts of brilliance got in. Brilliant is the only word that could describe McAlister during his prime years. He was Revis-like. #1 WRs facing the Ravens looked damned defeated by halftime.

    b) He was the 2nd best CB in football during the decade of the 2000s. Is there any other player in the history of the NFL who was the 2nd best at their position over a certain decade who is not in Canton?

    I'm a 10-hour-per-week "Hall of Fameologist" and I'm not sure I can think of a player who fits that description off the top of my head. Maybe Isiah Robertson for the Rams in the 1970s. He was arguably the 2nd best OLB in the league in the 1970s and he's not in, although I think he will be shortly.

    You could look at Jim Tyrer, who was either the best or the 2nd best LT of the 1960s, and he's not in Canton. Of course, the fact that he killed himself and his entire family probably is the reason for that more than his demonstrated ability on the field.

    Even at positions like C,TE, and OG (which don't produce tons of HOFers) there typically are two who make it for each decade. Dawson was the first, and possibly only, C from the 1990s to make it in. That's another rare exception. Center is a far less visible position than CB. Of course, the way C-Mac played cornerback, it was a largely invisible position also.

    c) There are numerous players recently put in the HOF who were never as good as CMac (Aikman, Swann, Stallworth,) or who had shorter careers than even that of CMAC (Earl Campbell, Paul Hornung). Swann never had a season where he was even one of the top 5 WRs in the game. Stallworth, at best, had two. Aikman, at best, had two years where he was a top 5 NFL QB. McAlister had seven straight years where he was a top 5---and possibly a top 3----corner. That's instant HOF validation in my book.

    d)McAlister is, without much debate, one of the top 20 cornerbacks in NFL history. There are roughly 240 players in the HOF and most positions have well over 20 players already enshrined.

    Question 2: Will McAlister get in to Canton? The answer is an obvious no.

    Why?

    1) The media members who vote are not intelligent people. They don't understand football very well. They look at stats while lazily ignoring the more important components of the game.

    2) I'm sure most media members evaluate Charles Woodson as a better CB than McAlister. He wasn't...and it really was never even close. Woodson might have had the flashier, longer career, but he shrunk in comparison to McAlister at the thing that mattered most----keeping opposing WRs out of the end zone. If the media is looking for that 2nd cornerback to go in with Champ Bailey, it's going to be Woodson and not McAlister, which is just wrong.

    3) McAlister turned in seven straight Pro Bowl caliber seasons from 2000-06, but only got voted in three times. I think that shows the general underappreciation of his abilities held by the media. That same ambivalence to his talents will make him a very short member to the HOF ballot sadly.

    Sadly, had the NFL top 100 list existed back in the days of CMAC's prime... and he made 5 or 6 straight top 30 lists....his lasting reputation might be more HOF polished. It's not happening though.

    4) Lastly, CB is a highly undervalued position in terms of Canton eligibility. Since 1985, how many CBs are in the HOF? Sanders and Woodson and Green I believe. Just three. Mike Haynes played until '89, but he was viewed as more of a pre-1985 dominant CB.

    There is a real distinction between being a HOFer and getting voted into the HOF by the media knuckleheads. Just because you never get voted in doesn't mean you aren't a HOFer in ability and performance. Fortunately, for guys like C-Mac and Isiah Robertson, there is a player-review element in place to compensate for some of the media member's mistakes.

    Also, the voice of the fan and the sabermatician is also gaining ground due to the internet. We can thank Blyleven's long-overdue induction to the voice of the fan beginning to gain equal footing with the voice of the media. If it wasn't for the internet, Blyleven would have had to wait until his 70s for the veterans committee to put him in. Perhaps that same voice of reason will eventually get C-Mac in, but I doubt it.
    Last edited by LukeDaniel; 06-08-2012 at 01:00 PM.




  6. #36
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    He was a shut down corner for three, maybe four, seasons.

    The league has been littered with guys with similar stats and don't even sniff the HoF.

    It's not personal but it's a ridiculous notion when you look at it through the lens of history.

    Again, nothing personal.
    Nothing personal, but this is one of the more ridiculous statements you've ever made.

    Through the "lens of history", McAlister is probably the 14th or 15th best cornerback in the 80 year history of the game of football. He's also one of the top 8 or 9 cornerbacks of the last 30 years. In my humble opinion, that makes you HOF worthy.




  7. #37
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Go to the Hall of Fame website. Look at the Corners who are in there and see how many interceptions they have compared with McAlister. You really need over 50 to even be considered and CMac has 26.
    So, Champ Bailey just got #50 last year...does that mean that he wouldn't have been considered had he decided to hang up his cletes before the 2011 season? Using your logic, last year was the year that finally made him "to be considered" as a HOFer. Obviously, Bailey has been a HOFer for years now. He was the best CB of the 2000s and probably one of the top 6 corners in league history.

    That bum Derrell Revis only has 18 career INTs. Do you think he has another 32 in him over the rest of his career? Probably not--especially when you consider he only has four in his last two seasons. Guess he doesn't get in either.

    The funny thing about Revis is that he made first team All Pro and the Pro Bowl in 2010 when he had a total of ZERO INTs.

    I think that is the best indication that you are using an outdated metric if you are thinking that INTs are now what people are using to evaluate the careers of CBs.

    Even if INTs were still used with the emphasis that you state--a fact I'd argue to the death-- the scale has changed.

    QBs aren't throwing picks like they once did. Last year, despite having 14 QBs throw over 500 passes, only four had more than 20 INTs. 40 years ago in 1971 (I picked a totally random year), only one QB (John Hadl) threw more than 400 passes and yet there were seven QBs who threw more than 20 INTs.




  8. #38

    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    lol he only had two great seasons. Most of the time he was either awful (2004) or solid. He had a very good career doe.




  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Nothing personal, but this is one of the more ridiculous statements you've ever made.

    Through the "lens of history", McAlister is probably the 14th or 15th best cornerback in the 80 year history of the game of football. He's also one of the top 8 or 9 cornerbacks of the last 30 years. In my humble opinion, that makes you HOF worthy.
    Based on what stats?

    Are you speaking from opinion or are you basing that ranking on something quantifiable?

    As others have pointed out, he's had three, arguably four, seasons where he was great.

    And you don't even mention the character issues that voters most certainly consider as well.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #40

    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Lets break down the teams criteria for induction into the RoH:



    Doesn't qualify, IMO. His demon was and always has been booze. It shortened a talented career. I sympathize for him. Alcoholism is a nasty disease. But he failed to face that demon.



    We heard rumors that he was a locker room disruption when Harbs got on board. Since, they are rumors, I'll go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt and give a thumbs up here.



    Can't really comment on this one. I will give him the benefit of the doubt here, too.



    Nope. As others have pointed out, he wasn't exactly a headstrong work horse for the team. rather, he was more concerned with outside distractions.



    Nope. See Character.



    A resounding yes to this one. he was one hell of talent, as you put it, for several seasons.



    No. Again, he was, and by all reports is still, a victim of his demons.
    Interesting read. Nowhere on there does it say you have to actually be a good football player, which explains how Byner is in the ROH.




  11. #41

    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    pretty outrageous notion. How many times did he even make the pro bowl?

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Nothing personal, but this is one of the more ridiculous statements you've ever made.

    Through the "lens of history", McAlister is probably the 14th or 15th best cornerback in the 80 year history of the game of football. He's also one of the top 8 or 9 cornerbacks of the last 30 years. In my humble opinion, that makes you HOF worthy.
    W
    T
    F

    ironic that you call someone else's statement ridiculous before uttering these words of insanity




  12. #42
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    The pro bowl is a popularity contest, using that as justification for HOF is, IMO, ridiculous.




  13. #43
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Interesting read. Nowhere on there does it say you have to actually be a good football player, which explains how Byner is in the ROH.
    Byner was a very good football player....before he got to Baltimore.




  14. #44
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    The pro bowl is a popularity contest, using that as justification for HOF is, IMO, ridiculous.
    Yes, this is my point. Using Pro Bowls as justification for HOF induction is beyond stupid. The same morons who vote for the Pro Bowl vote for the HOF. So essentially, they have the process monopolized---or at least the process for the first two decades after a player retires before they start to come up for veterans consideration.

    Most of the people who determine whether a player makes the Pro Bowl are not remotely qualified to make that type of decision. I would bet that the majority of them don't watch more than a few quarters from several of the less visible, buried-in-the-standings teams each season. That's why someone like Kam Chancellor- undeniably the best safety in the NFC last year- didn't get much Pro Bowl attention at all. Do you think too many of these media idiots watched him play a single game that wasn't on Monday or Thursday night? If they did, would they even notice some of the more subtle factors like how well he was covering the TEs on 3rd down, etc

    Sports writers are lazy. How else could you explain Palmeiro winning a gold glove a few years ago when he barely played the position? Five minutes looking at BR or any of the 200 other baseball databases would have given them a clue. That seems to be too much to ask. That's why the same ol' guys make the Pro Bowl long after it's deserved. It's easier to rely on the past than to research the present.




  15. #45
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    Re: Does Chris McCalister make the HOF?

    List of HoF CB's in the modern era ....

    Herb Adderley (CB) 1961-1972
    Lem Barney (CB) 1967-1977
    Mel Blount (CB) 1970-1983
    Willie Brown (CB) 1963-1978
    Jack Butler (CB) 1951-59
    Darrell Green (CB) 1983-2002
    Mike Haynes (CB) 1976-1989
    Jimmy Johnson (CB) 1961-1976
    Dick (Night Train) Lane (CB) 1952-1965
    Dick LeBeau (CB) 1959-1972
    Ronnie Lott (CB-S) 1981-1994
    Mel Renfro (S-CB) 1964-1977
    Deion Sanders (CB-KR-PR)
    Emmitt Thomas (CB) 1966-1978
    Rod Woodson 1987-2003

    Those are some amazing names on that list. Cmac lacks the longevity and stats to make it amongst this stellar group of athletes. None of those guys have fewer than 41 INT's in their careers. Cmac has 26 career INT's.

    Same proportional disparity exists in career tackles.

    Like someone else said, it's not the Hall of Very Good.
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