NBA playoffs

**NCRAVEN** · 06-04-2012, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I can buy that.

He is talented. No denying that. But when I hear Wilbon and others say he's as good as Jordan, I simply have to laugh.

I'm going to say it will be the Spurs v. Heat in the finals with the Spurs making it look easy in the finals.

Did he really hire someone to rub lotion on him???

**Carey** · 06-04-2012, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Did he really hire someone to rub lotion on him???

As well as the Cavs who enabled him by putting his entourage on the payroll

**HoustonRaven** · 06-04-2012, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Did he really hire someone to rub lotion on him???

Read something to the effect on Deadspin a few years ago when he was still on the Cavaliers. He only did it for a season and stopped after he got mocked in the locker room.

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-04-2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

Lebron gets alot of hate, he handled leaving Cleveland wrong but he's apologized for it. I long thought he was overrated because his overall skill set was far enough developed and alot of what he got credit for was made possible because he might be the greatest physical specimen we've ever seen in basketball, but quietly he's improved his ability off the ball, his post game, added a floater. He didnt have any of that not even a year ago so in a way i think the criticism fueled him to fill out his game.

That's a good overview and I agree with it. I call him the swiss army knife of the NBA; he's not overly great at anything but he's damn good at everything.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-04-2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Read something to the effect on Deadspin a few years ago when he was still on the Cavaliers. He only did it for a season and stopped after he got mocked in the locker room.

Yeah, I could see why that would bother someone.

To me, I was indifferent to the guy until he went to Miami. People hated "the decision" and how he left Cleveland etc. To me, he just fell into all the hype surrounding him that was created by ESPN and other Sports Media, I mean, they nationally televised his High School games for crying out loud.

I'm not trying to say he is at no fault for the way he left Cleveland or anything. Just how he was built up so much by the media and the same people building him up want to tear him down has caused me to pull for him.. on the court.

**JMUpurkfool** · 06-04-2012, 04:53 PM

LeBron's talent is equal to the hatred toward him.

It's funny how basketball is the one sport where a player can be selfish on the court and that is thought of as a positive thing. The majority of basketball fans that I hear from adore Kobe Bryant. He didn't do it on his own. Every team that Kobe has ever been on (outside this year) has been more talented from top to bottom than any team LeBron has played with.

On the court he is on the most unselfish players I've ever seen. Half of his career was wasted with the Cavs when the second best player on his team was Mo Williams. Seriously, Mo Williams.

**JAB1985** · 06-04-2012, 08:08 PM

Im a spurs fan so id like to see them pull it off, especially being the top team and barely hearing a word about them all season. I like okc too and the heat. Not a big celtics fan. With that said i see the spurs winning in 7 and heat in 6. Spurs win the finals in 5. But if im wrong about the spurs okc will win in similar fashion. The western finals will determine the champs.

I dont get the lebron hate. That special was stupid but he helped alot of kids with that donation from it, which somehow always gets forgotten. Hes the best athlete but i cant see how thats a knock when debating best player. His court vision, iq, passing and on the ball defense are all phenomenal. Hes the recarnation of magic johnson, who imo is the best player in history. Jordan was amazing and his ability to score was godly to the point that it made those around him better by drawing attention but his will to win is what made him special. Nobody has come close to that. Magic and lebron make those around them better by being such great passers and facilitators. Kobe is alot like jordan without being able to make his teammates better, hes a killer but no jordan. Hes overrated defender, horrible team player, and selfish egomaniac. Lebron and wade are both better players than kobe, imo, eventhough neither may be a better scorer.

Edit: with that loss tonight itll be hard for the spurs to pull off two in a row against that young team. Not impossible but i had figured theyd hold homecourt.

**pslholder96** · 06-05-2012, 09:46 AM

Great game last night. The Thunder have arrived. Extremely impressive the poise a team with 4 starters age 23 or younger showed. It's a damn shame this matchup couldn't have taken place in the NBA finals. I'm rooting for a Thunder-Celtics matchup.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-05-2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by JAB1985

I dont get the lebron hate. That special was stupid but he helped alot of kids with that donation from it, which somehow always gets forgotten. Hes the best athlete but i cant see how thats a knock when debating best player. His court vision, iq, passing and on the ball defense are all phenomenal. Hes the recarnation of magic johnson, who imo is the best player in history. Jordan was amazing and his ability to score was godly to the point that it made those around him better by drawing attention but his will to win is what made him special. Nobody has come close to that. Magic and lebron make those around them better by being such great passers and facilitators. Kobe is alot like jordan without being able to make his teammates better, hes a killer but no jordan. Hes overrated defender, horrible team player, and selfish egomaniac. Lebron and wade are both better players than kobe, imo, eventhough neither may be a better scorer.

Being a phenomenal athlete is not a knock on what type of player he is. I think hands down he the best athlete in the NBA. I also think we are seeing a transition (in college as well) away from the better teams are the ones with better basketball players to the better teams are the ones with better athletes. It could be argued OKC vs. San Antonio is an example of that.

Someone else said very well regarding Lebron's skills, he is good at everything, and really good at a few things (or something to that affect). If you want to go down the list in comparing players in each area we can, but for my money I will start my team with Jordan 7 days a week a twice on Sundays.

**JAB1985** · 06-05-2012, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Being a phenomenal athlete is not a knock on what type of player he is. I think hands down he the best athlete in the NBA. I also think we are seeing a transition (in college as well) away from the better teams are the ones with better basketball players to the better teams are the ones with better athletes. It could be argued OKC vs. San Antonio is an example of that.

Someone else said very well regarding Lebron's skills, he is good at everything, and really good at a few things (or something to that affect). If you want to go down the list in comparing players in each area we can, but for my money I will start my team with Jordan 7 days a week a twice on Sundays.

I can see that, with the way they changed the rules, being fast and strong to drive to the hoop is more important than anything. Saying hes the best athlete seems to diminish his actual skills which are elite on their own though. I get why people that dont think hes the best say it (if hes not the best in your opinion, your not going to say hes the best athlete and one of the best players), but by not acknowledging his skills and calling him an athlete instead of a player is a knock, even if not intended. Jordan and James dont really compare well, different players, eras, positions. comparing lebron to kobe who most of the detractors point to as the best is a little easier. Kobes been a career 45% FG, while james is 48% and has been over 50% the last 3 years (and getting better each year).with knowing that id even argue hes a better scorer than Kobe, since hes usually in the top 3 in the league with Kobe, but doing it more efficiently. Scoring is the only thing you can point to and realistically say hes better than lebron at, but even in that area id say he isnt.

Jordan certainly proved to have had an it factor, but he also got away with a lot like people blame and dislike James for. Seems a little hypocritical which i guess is what gets under my skin a little. ive always liked the Magic vs Jordan debate, but its a lot like todays Lebron vs Jordan battle, hard to get a real debate when its different eras.

**The Excellector** · 06-05-2012, 11:07 AM

I don't know about that. I think that Kobe is a more efficient scorer. James still has to learn that his bread and butter will be at the line. He doesn't have that mindset right now. Kobe could attempt ten shots and still end up with thirty points, because he knows how to get to the line and make the most of doing so.

**JAB1985** · 06-05-2012, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I don't know about that. I think that Kobe is a more efficient scorer. James still has to learn that his bread and butter will be at the line. He doesn't have that mindset right now. Kobe could attempt ten shots and still end up with thirty points, because he knows how to get to the line and make the most of doing so.

Id agree with that to some degree. I dont think he and Wade take advantage of FTs by being only average at them (sub 80% is pretty sad) but hes still averaging about the same ppgs as Kobe who is a better FT shooter. I took PPG and FG% for this debate. over the last 9 seasons (lebrons entire career vs Kobes prime) hes averaged 28.2 @ .449% to lebrons 27.6 @ .483% (.513% the last 3 years to Kobes .446%). even with his FT woes (and therefore some points left out) hes still a more efficient scorer than Kobe, and makes his teammates better as well with his passing, where Kobe goes a good many games without more than 3 assists (18 games 29% of the season), which is very telling of the type of player he is (selfish/volume shooter).