Jacoby Jones

**The Excellector** · 06-05-2012, 06:59 AM

My point is that Smith couldn't catch the ball. He dropped so many passes.

Personally, I think that Smith was a better fit for the system and that had a lot to do with it. However, I think that Alien Bird likely gave the answer that is closest to the truth. The Ravens are risk adverse on offense. You can see in the way the plays are called and the way they respond to adversity on that side of the ball.

As for the coaching staff not stepping over players who have proven that they deserve a chance, I understand that the coaching staff knows more than we do. However, the coaching staff hasn't done enough with this offense to warrant the benefit of the doubt with their decision making.

The reality is that if Evans had been healthy, it may have taken Smith much longer to get chances on the field. There is a pattern of this with the team. Troy Smith and Kyle Boller go on the injured list. Joe is forced to start. The RBs get dinged up. LeRon McClain is forced to get carries. Lee Evans gets hurt. Torrey Smith is forced to start.

**Terpsfan82** · 06-05-2012, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

My point is that Smith couldn't catch the ball. He dropped so many passes.

Personally, I think that Smith was a better fit for the system and that had a lot to do with it. However, I think that Alien Bird likely gave the answer that is closest to the truth. The Ravens are risk adverse on offense. You can see in the way the plays are called and the way they respond to adversity on that side of the ball.

As for the coaching staff not stepping over players who have proven that they deserve a chance, I understand that the coaching staff knows more than we do. However, the coaching staff hasn't done enough with this offense to warrant the benefit of the doubt with their decision making.

The reality is that if Evans had been healthy, it may have taken Smith much longer to get chances on the field. There is a pattern of this with the team. Troy Smith and Kyle Boller go on the injured list. Joe is forced to start. The RBs get dinged up. LeRon McClain is forced to get carries. Lee Evans gets hurt. Torrey Smith is forced to start.

This. I do believe its by design, however. Less rookies on offense equals less mistakes, especially in crunch time. It drives me crazy when I see, as another poster mentioned, young receivers on other teams show up big and ours get relegated to mop up duty and special teams.

**The Excellector** · 06-05-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Terpsfan82

This. I do believe its by design, however. Less rookies on offense equals less mistakes, especially in crunch time. It drives me crazy when I see, as another poster mentioned, young receivers on other teams show up big and ours get relegated to mop up duty and special teams.

Other teams are more willing to live through the mistakes of the younger players than the Ravens. New England put their two young TEs on the field immediately. They didn't sign a veteran TE to put in front of them. You could say that they trust that situation more, due to the QB, but it would go back to the issue of being risk adverse. When Brady makes mistakes, they don't take the ball out of his hands. When Rodgers made mistakes, they didn't take the ball out of his hands. When Joe Flacco makes a mistake, unless they are really trailing, you will likely see them run the ball twice in the next series.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 06-05-2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Other teams are more willing to live through the mistakes of the younger players than the Ravens. New England put their two young TEs on the field immediately. They didn't sign a veteran TE to put in front of them. You could say that they trust that situation more, due to the QB, but it would go back to the issue of being risk adverse. When Brady makes mistakes, they don't take the ball out of his hands. When Rodgers made mistakes, they didn't take the ball out of his hands. When Joe Flacco makes a mistake, unless they are really trailing, you will likely see them run the ball twice in the next series.

See, nothing is personal in this thread, but this is what I'm talking about.

People don't pay attention at all to other teams, yet want to make statements like this.

The New England Patriots signed a vet TE that offseason (Alge Crumpler). You don't think that once the season started Bill saw that nobody on his team could cover them and were incredible mismatches the second they stepped on the practice field?

The Steelers are NOTORIOUS for going slow with their rookies. Yet because 2 guys showed they can play in practice...AND produced on the field, people make it out like they have no problem throwing guys out there. In reality, they are really slow to play guys. Since 2007, they've had 2 draft picks...total...that have started since day 1. In addition, of all those picks there are only a few that made any type of significant impact/PT with the base units that first year...Marcus Gilbert, Mike Wallace, Evander Hood. And there are a shit load of players that didn't play much at all in the base offense/defense the first year or 2 that eventually got some PT...Lawrence Timmons, Lamar Woodley, William Gay, Keenan Lewis, Jason Worilds, Antonio Brown. AND as for the "they didn't sign a vet" crap at WR that year...again, wrong. They signed Antwaan Randle El who served as the 3rd WR for a significant portion of the year.

The Steelers are not out there just throwing guys out there...they have to show they are ready to play. And they also have a history of signing vets to "hedge their bets on the development of the young guys".

**The Excellector** · 06-05-2012, 07:52 PM

Belichick may have seen that the two TEs would be a mismatch. However, that doesn't mean that the Ravens coaching staff could have missed that with Torrey. They felt that Torrey was not ready, which is why they traded for Lee Evans. Evans injured his ankle and Torrey showed that he was more up to the task than they thought.

I may have said other teams, but I don't think I mentioned Pittsburgh. There are, however, other teams that you can look at. Dallas put Miles Austin on the field as a rookie, as well as Dez Bryant. You know that Dallas is not a team that is afraid to make a move if they feel it is necessary. However, they went with Austin and he quickly became their best WR. Philadelphia is another example, with what they did. Cincinnati made it work last year.

There are some times when it does not work. However, the issue is whether or not the team is willing to take the risk. When you are dealing with younger players, there will be mistakes. I think that you have to be willing to live with them, if you can expect them to become better players. Yes, the Patriots did sign Crumpler, but did he take any snaps from Hernandez and Gronkowski? Bill Belichick has also got rid of veteran defenders, in favor of young defenders, several of them being rookies. You can say that Belichick saw the force that the TEs could be. Well then, did he not see that the young defenders would be liabilities?

The point is that he was willing to take the chance.

**The Excellector** · 06-05-2012, 08:04 PM

There are some successful teams that have been more prone to stick with veterans. On the surface, it looks as though they are 'giving' younger players opportunities. However, when you look beneath the surface, you see that those players are getting opportunity out of necessity. Victor Cruz, if I am not mistaken, made the team due to injury. Jordy Nelson happened to be on a team that uses enough four wide sets, that he could see the field as the fourth WR. Once the team was convinced that James Jones couldn't catch a cold, he became the third main target at WR. Then, Donald Driver aged. Suddenly, Nelson is up there will Jennings in the attention that he gets. Pittsburgh is indeed notorious for sticking with their veterans.

However, that does not mean that they haven't made mistakes in their assessments. As I mentioned, Belichick has went young at several different positions on both sides of the ball, not just at TE. However, while it worked at TE, it did not work at some other positions.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 06-05-2012, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Belichick may have seen that the two TEs would be a mismatch. However, that doesn't mean that the Ravens coaching staff could have missed that with Torrey. They felt that Torrey was not ready, which is why they traded for Lee Evans. Evans injured his ankle and Torrey showed that he was more up to the task than they thought.

I may have said other teams, but I don't think I mentioned Pittsburgh. There are, however, other teams that you can look at. Dallas put Miles Austin on the field as a rookie, as well as Dez Bryant. You know that Dallas is not a team that is afraid to make a move if they feel it is necessary. However, they went with Austin and he quickly became their best WR. Philadelphia is another example, with what they did. Cincinnati made it work last year.

There are some times when it does not work. However, the issue is whether or not the team is willing to take the risk. When you are dealing with younger players, there will be mistakes. I think that you have to be willing to live with them, if you can expect them to become better players. Yes, the Patriots did sign Crumpler, but did he take any snaps from Hernandez and Gronkowski? Bill Belichick has also got rid of veteran defenders, in favor of young defenders, several of them being rookies. You can say that Belichick saw the force that the TEs could be. Well then, did he not see that the young defenders would be liabilities?

The point is that he was willing to take the chance.

Torrey was not ready. Half the board was ready to run him out of town and he didn't produce anything despite playing significant snaps the first 2 games. But the staff saw something in him that they did not see in Doss/Reed/Williams...and it wound up being justified. Please believe that while he may not have started the year with the 1's, either he would have eventually moved up due to Evans non production or he would have seen PLENTY of time as the #3 guy.

Miles Austin? See, this again is what I'm talking about. Miles Austin started zero games for 3 years! Didn't have a start until year 4 when he had 5. Had zero receptions in year one and 5 in year 2 and 13 in year 3. Terrible example.

Dez Bryant? Yeah, it was incredible that they allowed a guy who was thought to have been a top 10-15 talent in a very deep draft start. You know...just like we had Oher. Same thing with Maclin in Philly. Green was one of the top WR talents to come into the league in 5 years...of course he would start...he would have started here. How many 1st round picks have we had that didn't start from day one? Those examples are crazy. Each one of those guys would have been starting here from day one if we drafted in the top half of the draft.

As for the NE tight ends...of freaking course they played over Crumpler...there was no chance to take, those guys showed from the jump that they were elite talents. To act like Bill just sat there and took this big chance on playing them just makes no sense. If Tandon Doss and Laquan and Reed showed that they were mismatches on the field from the very first practice, and that much better than the guys in front of them, they'd be playing (BTW...if your defensive vets were as bad as his were, you'd be going with young guys too...especially if you've drafted a shitload of them in the first 2-3 rounds over the years). But it goes back to the point of signing vets, some here are pissed at signing a WR because they feel that he will be taking snaps away from guys...the Pats did it and so did the Steelers. For the Pats, the TE's proved in a very short period of time that they were one of a kind...the Steelers WR's took basically the entire first season (also, Sanders has not proven to be this terrific talent...dude still hasn't had more than like 28 catches in a season).

**The Excellector** · 06-05-2012, 08:46 PM

Damn, Miles Austin was a bad example wasn't he?

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-05-2012, 09:01 PM

Hey Ex, Woodlawn is killin' ya :)

**Ravenous1** · 06-05-2012, 09:24 PM

I think it should be pointed out that of all the young WR last year, Tandon Doss was the guy whose game required the most change. What I mean is that in college he was a primary receiver, primarily played outside and his lack of physicality was not as much an issue. In the NFL this guy is gonna be a possession receiver and if you cant deal with the physical nature in those first five yards your gonna have a hard time creating separation with his speed. I think Tandon has the route skills to excel as a possession receiver but needed to work on the physical elements of the position. Point is unlike Torrey Smith who has elite speed and can use that to create separation, Doss has to rely on other skills to create similar separation. I am not overly shocked he did not see much time on the field. Thinking an offseason of coaching to work on his physicality and to settle into the role will do him well and I do think he will be more of a factor this season.

**Ravenalytics** · 06-07-2012, 03:58 AM

I don't blame them last year for not planning to stick Torrey in immediately. If you're starting out the season, I think it's pretty clear that Boldin and Evans were the best choices because they were proven veterans. They'd rotate Torrey in when necessary to give him playing time and to utilize his skillset. Just like they did with McPhee. Torrey would have gotten his chance to prove himself, just like McPhee did. And both this year are going to play large parts in the team.

**The Excellector** · 06-07-2012, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Hey Ex, Woodlawn is killin' ya :)

Man, he f*cked me up in that one. lol

He is right though. The vast majority of consistently winning organizations are also very cautious about playing young players, unless it is through necessity. The Giants, Steelers and Ravens are all the same way with this (One could say that the Giants are necessarily consistent).

I guess what fans feel is that what they saw from Torrey Smith sort of confirmed what they feel is true, whether it is or not, that the team might be risk adverse to a fault. Torrey didn't look very good in the preseason. Suddenly, he gets to start and scores three TDs in the first quarter? Even if it is against the Rams, that is impressive. Then, when the playoffs arrive, they've seen those veterans, who were supposedly brought in, because the younger players weren't ready, drop the key passes that you would only expect the younger players to drop. With that in mind, they just feel that, for all of that, you might as well ride with the younger players.