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  1. #13

    Re: A different thought about the D.......



    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I definitely agree that Ozzie's knack for finding defensive players helps but I think Ozzie has always had that knack. And we've never been able to weather the storm like we have under Harbaugh. I look at Billick's last year compared to Harbaugh's first year. Both years the defense was decimated with injuries. The only difference is those injuries killed Billick's 07 team and they didn't kill Harbaugh's 08 team.

    07-08
    Trevor Pryce- Kelly Gregg
    Cmac- Cmac
    Rolle- Rolle (for parts of the season)
    - Landry

    Both years we lost key cogs but one year was vastly more successful than the other. Why?

    I think it goes directly to better preparation by the coaching staff.
    Because Steve McNair sucked and only played 6 games and as the offense struggled the defense was weighed on much heavier and faltered. It was the loss of QB capable of even managing the game in that instance, which even this team could not overcome when completely healthy elsewhere. Flacco, even as a rookie, was a huge improvement to McNair, Boller, Smith. I see what youre trying to say, i just dont think Harbs has as much to do with it as Ozzie. It shows more on our defense becasue of the great DCs we have and less on the offense because, well Cam isnt that good and we dont get the top notch talent to continually fill that spot like on defense. Harbs definitely brings something to it, but its more Steve and Ozzie saying to rely more on younger players and having capable players to fill in than Harbs finding roles for said players, imo.
    -JAB




  2. #14
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    Re: A different thought about the D.......

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Because Steve McNair sucked and only played 6 games and as the offense struggled the defense was weighed on much heavier and faltered. It was the loss of QB capable of even managing the game in that instance, which even this team could not overcome when completely healthy elsewhere. Flacco, even as a rookie, was a huge improvement to McNair, Boller, Smith. I see what youre trying to say, i just dont think Harbs has as much to do with it as Ozzie. It shows more on our defense becasue of the great DCs we have and less on the offense because, well Cam isnt that good and we dont get the top notch talent to continually fill that spot like on defense. Harbs definitely brings something to it, but its more Steve and Ozzie saying to rely more on younger players and having capable players to fill in than Harbs finding roles for said players, imo.
    That's an excellent point.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  3. #15
    Join Date
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    Re: A different thought about the D.......

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Because Steve McNair sucked and only played 6 games and as the offense struggled the defense was weighed on much heavier and faltered. It was the loss of QB capable of even managing the game in that instance, which even this team could not overcome when completely healthy elsewhere. Flacco, even as a rookie, was a huge improvement to McNair, Boller, Smith. I see what youre trying to say, i just dont think Harbs has as much to do with it as Ozzie. It shows more on our defense becasue of the great DCs we have and less on the offense because, well Cam isnt that good and we dont get the top notch talent to continually fill that spot like on defense. Harbs definitely brings something to it, but its more Steve and Ozzie saying to rely more on younger players and having capable players to fill in than Harbs finding roles for said players, imo.
    I don't think your giving Harbaugh enough credit. The reason the offense improved during that span isnt just because a rookie QB took over. The entire offensive philosophy changed. The Ravens leaned more on their strength of running the ball and less on their weakness which was passing. The big knock on Billick in his last year was that he was going away from the run game to early and passing in situations where he should have been calling runs. Billick's offensive philosophy had as much to do with the poor offensive performance as anything. I can think of two very specific instances where his going pass happy late in a game likely cost us the game.

    But we could debate what went wrong and why it went wrong for hours. We'll just agree to disagree.




  4. #16

    Re: A different thought about the D.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    But we could debate what went wrong and why it went wrong for hours. We'll just agree to disagree.
    Fair enough. Like I said, I think I get what youre saying, just disagree to the significance to the result.
    -JAB




  5. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Re: A different thought about the D.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't think your giving Harbaugh enough credit. The reason the offense improved during that span isnt just because a rookie QB took over. The entire offensive philosophy changed. The Ravens leaned more on their strength of running the ball and less on their weakness which was passing. The big knock on Billick in his last year was that he was going away from the run game to early and passing in situations where he should have been calling runs. Billick's offensive philosophy had as much to do with the poor offensive performance as anything. I can think of two very specific instances where his going pass happy late in a game likely cost us the game.

    But we could debate what went wrong and why it went wrong for hours. We'll just agree to disagree.
    Well, a number of things happened and the rosters between 2007 and 2008 were alot different along with the coaches.
    2007, Jamal was not wearing purple for the first time in his career.
    So that would be more of a reason why we would go to the pass more.
    In 2008, what does any team do with a starting rookie quarterback?
    You DO go with the run. But they were only able to do it because they had a three headed monster back there.
    With McGahee, Rice and McClain. Offense scored a TD higher per game than in 2007.
    Add in Ed Reed's 2nd best year at safety, 9 interceptions, 264 yards, and 2 TDs.
    In 2007, Reed was out for 2 games.
    AND, Heap was out for 10 games in 2007. But played all 16 in 2008.

    So there are a number of factors.

    And back to the original subject.
    I believe that Ray and Ed bring more to the table than most defensive players throughout the NFL.
    Ray Lewis maybe the paramount linebacker/leader of his generation.
    There is also the experience level of both.
    Both make plays because they see and process things at a different speed than most players throughout the league.
    Polamalu had that early in his career and still does it from time to time.
    Those kind of reactions and skills are god-given.
    You can't coach that.

    Recall Ray smacking Sproles in San Diego to end the game a couple years back.
    Recall Reed making so many plays during the playoffs.
    He didn't make many interceptions, but he sure was in the right place at the right time over and over again.
    You can't coach those things. They were steps ahead when everyone is saying they are on their last legs.

    All I know is, you can't replace that kind of experience, physical gifts, leadership, and their intangibles with just any decent player. Each one is capable of taking over a game or better yet, being the catalyst to raising the entire team's level of play with their words and actions.




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