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  1. #16
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    Re: OT- L. McCoy signs 5 year deal



    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    5 years, $45 million with $20.765 million in guarantees

    Arian Foster was 5yrs, $43.5 million contract, including $20.75 million guaranteed.

    If we cant get RR to sign at around this level soon then he wont be a raven yr after next. his market is firmly set
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  2. #17
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Wrong, wrong and more wrong but I am Riced out these days and don't feel like arguing. It would be a rather easy argument but there won't be an changing of minds around here so it is pointless.

    McCoy has never and will never be on the same level as Rice, and just got 9 million a year.

    That is why Rice is in line for 10 million a year much to the dismay of everyone in Baltimore for some crazy reason.

    Gonna have to put the board on suicide watch when early July rolls around and Rice has a deal a little more than Foster and definitely more than McCoy.
    Honestly, people will only care if it prevents the Ravens from signing Flacco. Once Rice is signed everyone will be elated to have him back.




  3. #18

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Honestly, people will only care if it prevents the Ravens from signing Flacco. Once Rice is signed everyone will be elated to have him back.
    Signing Rice has no bearing on what happens with Flacco. There is plenty of money to go around when you have a roster 1/3 full of draft picks making nothing. This is what people don't seem to get, a steady flow of draft picks that produce allows you to retain major pieces.

    And as long as Ozzie and Decosta are in charge that won't be changing an time soon, for years to come.




  4. #19

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Hensley's got a slightly different take...

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...-help-ray-rice




  5. #20

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Wrong, wrong and more wrong but I am Riced out these days and don't feel like arguing. It would be a rather easy argument but there won't be an changing of minds around here so it is pointless.

    McCoy has never and will never be on the same level as Rice, and just got 9 million a year.

    That is why Rice is in line for 10 million a year much to the dismay of everyone in Baltimore for some crazy reason.

    Gonna have to put the board on suicide watch when early July rolls around and Rice has a deal a little more than Foster and definitely more than McCoy.
    McCoy and Rice are very close, but McCoy was a better back last year. Despite worse blocking in front of him and playing in a pass-first system, McCoy posted a better YPC, more TDs, more YPG, and was better in a lot of areas Rice struggled--short yardage particularly among them. The only advantage Rice has is that he caught more passes, but the Ravens threw a much higher percentage of their passes to backs than the Eagles, which is consistent with their offensive scheme.

    Over their careers, McCoy has slightly better numbers in every area except number of receptions, and even that area is very close--McCoy had 78 receptions in 2010, so he clearly has the receiving ability. You could perhaps make an argument that Michael Vick's rushing ability (and the overall superior Eagles offense) opens things up for McCoy a bit, but he was just as good with Vince Young under center and I don't think the tape supports that argument. Teams were selling out to stop McCoy last year and weren't able to do it.

    Scouting the both of them, McCoy is faster, more elusive, and a bit stronger. Rice has a bit better vision and decisiveness, and is the superior receiver and route-runner. McCoy is a better pass-blocker.

    Grade all of that out, and in my unbiased opinion McCoy is a slightly better back. He's also a year younger. That doesn't mean Rice isn't a superb back, but I suppose it's heresy to you to suggest that the Ravens don't have the 22 best players at each of their positions in the NFL on the roster.

    Even if you disagree, which is not unreasonable, I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find people who agree with you that McCoy and Rice "aren't even on the same level."

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Signing Rice has no bearing on what happens with Flacco. There is plenty of money to go around when you have a roster 1/3 full of draft picks making nothing. This is what people don't seem to get, a steady flow of draft picks that produce allows you to retain major pieces.

    And as long as Ozzie and Decosta are in charge that won't be changing an time soon, for years to come.
    This is a ludicrous statement that I'm not even sure merits a challenge. Of course signing Rice has a bearing on Flacco. Rice's (presumed) deal affects the financial situation of the team and everything associated with it. If things were as easy as you make them seem, why are the Ravens so close to the cap? Why haven't they already re-signed Rice and Flacco? Why did they let Ben Grubbs go?

    Hell, why bother ever negotiating with players? Just sit down at the table with the player and their agent and agree to their first proposal. Hell, it's easy--if you're playing with Monopoly money, I guess...




  6. #21

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    Hensley's got a slightly different take...

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...-help-ray-rice
    I'm sorry, but Hensley has lost a few marbles since he took the ESPN job, and this article smacks of the illogical, poorly thought out schlock he's been producing.

    His primary justification for Rice getting more than McCoy and Foster is that Rice has more total yards over the last 3 years--but Rice started 45 games over those 3 years, while McCoy started 32 and Foster 27.

    Over that time, measured by yards per game, Foster has significantly outproduced Rice, McCoy has been almost identical.

    The two other backs stack up well by other efficiency measures also.

    The AP and CJ deals aren't relevant because those are bad deals by stupid teams who got fleeced. Now, times have changed.




  7. #22

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    No argument from me--I think Hensley has more or less become a Steeler apologist since picking up the ESPN gig.

    Unfortunately, by virtue of his position, he has the ability to shape opinions...




  8. #23

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJoeFlaccoShow View Post
    Wrong, wrong and more wrong but I am Riced out these days and don't feel like arguing. It would be a rather easy argument but there won't be an changing of minds around here so it is pointless.

    McCoy has never and will never be on the same level as Rice, and just got 9 million a year.

    That is why Rice is in line for 10 million a year much to the dismay of everyone in Baltimore for some crazy reason.

    Gonna have to put the board on suicide watch when early July rolls around and Rice has a deal a little more than Foster and definitely more than McCoy.
    I love Ray Rice as much as the next guy, but LeSean McCoy had a much better and more complete season than Rice did last year and is probably a slightly better overall back at this point. They're both top-5, though.




  9. #24
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by mfdoom42 View Post
    I love Ray Rice as much as the next guy, but LeSean McCoy had a much better and more complete season than Rice did last year and is probably a slightly better overall back at this point. They're both top-5, though.
    "Much" better? Wow ok.




  10. #25

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    I am personally not a fan of paying any running back big bucks. I liked the deal that Jax did with MJD. I think Rice is on par with Foster and McCoy but I would rather they not sign him to a similar contract. I would rather use the money on Oline and wrs and take a rb by committee approach similar to NY Giants.




  11. #26
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by mfdoom42 View Post
    I love Ray Rice as much as the next guy, but LeSean McCoy had a much better and more complete season than Rice did last year and is probably a slightly better overall back at this point. They're both top-5, though.
    Much better is an overstatement. If anything McCoy plays in a much better offense with much better players.

    Do you realize that even with Vick out Philly still finished with a top 10 passing game? The Ravens were 10 slots lower. I am not knocking Flacco for his production but in Andy Reids offense McCoy has it much easier than Rice has it Cam Cameron's offense. In Reid's offense, imo, McCoy is a secondary figure to the Eagles passing attack. The Eagles would still put up huge offensive numbers without McCoy. Ray Rice is Cameron's entire offense. When Rice falters 90% of the time the Ravens offense crumbles.




  12. #27

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Much better is an overstatement. If anything McCoy plays in a much better offense with much better players.

    Do you realize that even with Vick out Philly still finished with a top 10 passing game? The Ravens were 10 slots lower. I am not knocking Flacco for his production but in Andy Reids offense McCoy has it much easier than Rice has it Cam Cameron's offense. In Reid's offense, imo, McCoy is a secondary figure to the Eagles passing attack. The Eagles would still put up huge offensive numbers without McCoy. Ray Rice is Cameron's entire offense. When Rice falters 90% of the time the Ravens offense crumbles.
    Pierce would be Cameron's entire offense if he was the featured back. Call it like it is, Cam offense is a RB's wet dream but unfortunately a nightmare for a QB.

    Last year, Rice left a lot of yards on field. The evidence was Ricky Williams being the more productive RB in the playoffs. Ray danced too much instead of hitting hole that Leach blew up. A 5yd straight ahead dive is a lot better than Ray's too frequent tapdance 2yd gains. Sorry I just don't think Ray is a great Running RB. Good but not great. (Passcatching RB he is arguably the best)

    If the Ravens do cave in to Ray's agent demands, and he does get a deal that is substantial better than Foster & McCoy contracts, I will be very pissed at the Ravens FO. It's simply bad business. Thankfully the FO is smart. Why do you think the drafted Pierce anyways... It lessen the blow of Ray's likely holding out and being in bad 'football' shape for the 1H of the year.




  13. #28

    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    So 12 playoff carries where Ricky averaged 1 extra yard per carry than Rice (42 carries) proves that "last year, Rice left a lot of yards on the field?" Even though during the regular season Ricky averaged 4.1 YPC on 108 carries to Rice's 4.7 YPC on 291 carries?

    To be honest, I thought that Rice was tripped up by minimal contact in semi-open field last year more than he had been in previous seasons (didn't lift his feet or was a bit off balance, etc). I also recall a few times where he didn't quite follow Leach and/or danced, but I would argue all backs do that. I am not sure I would go so far as to say he left a lot of yards on the field. And I wouldn't point to the results of two games and a dozen carries as strong evidence.

    In reverse.....Last year Ben Tate averaged 5.4 YPC on a whopping 175 carries in the regular season. To Foster's 4.4 YPC on 278 carries. Tate also had 9 playoff carries (to Foster's 51) where he averaged 1.5 YPC less than Foster.

    In general I agree with you that Rice's running abilities/results are not as exceptional as his receiving abilities/results, but the combination of very good running and very great receiving I think makes the overall package "great" for sure. Without a passcatching RB our offense would struggle mightily and need to drastically change its philopsophy/playcalling.




  14. #29
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Our back seems to be the only one with his head in the clouds.
    Don't forget Matt Forte
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  15. #30
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    Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    Hensley's got a slightly different take...

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/pos...-help-ray-rice
    Why is Hensley comparing Rice, McCoy and Foster as if they had anywhere near the same number of games played or even carries in the past 3 years? What an apples and oranges way to look at things.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




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