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  1. #16

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?



    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    I am sure you are being sarcastic, but that is pretty silly. Flacco's career here will outlast cameron's by about a decade. He is about to get close to $100 million...what do you think cameron makes???

    I could see them having a lot more success in the passing game than they had last year. Pitta/dickson and torrey smith should really start to click with joe this year. We are also going to have to score more points this year against a handful of the leagues better offenses. We could see joe put up 4000+ as a result of falling behind in a lot more games than usual. It wont be because of cam.
    Cam Cameron will be here a long time as well. Flacco will probably spend his whole career in a play-not-to-lose offense. Anyone who thinks our offensive philosophy will change in the next decade or so is being pretty naive. Cameron plays scared, so Flacco will never develop into a top-tier quarterback.




  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Cam Cameron will be here a long time as well. Flacco will probably spend his whole career in a play-not-to-lose offense. Anyone who thinks our offensive philosophy will change in the next decade or so is being pretty naive. Cameron plays scared, so Flacco will never develop into a top-tier quarterback.
    Coaches are hired to be fired, so goes the saying.

    Chances are Flacco sees more than one OC during his career.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #18
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    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Cam Cameron will be here a long time as well. Flacco will probably spend his whole career in a play-not-to-lose offense. Anyone who thinks our offensive philosophy will change in the next decade or so is being pretty naive. Cameron plays scared, so Flacco will never develop into a top-tier quarterback.
    As stated above, I think it's unrealistic to think that our offensive philosphy is going to be the same for the next decade, I'm not so sure if Cam will even be our OC in 2013.




  4. #19
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    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    As stated above, I think it's unrealistic to think that our offensive philosphy is going to be the same for the next decade, I'm not so sure if Cam will even be our OC in 2013.
    Cam Cameron will be here as long as he wants to be. Not sure if he'll be around another ten years though.




  5. #20
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    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    As stated above, I think it's unrealistic to think that our offensive philosphy is going to be the same for the next decade, I'm not so sure if Cam will even be our OC in 2013.
    Not to sound as though I'm coming from too far out in left field, but I sometimes wonder if Cam's future with the team won't weigh as a minor factor into Flacco's long term decision-making. Money -- and being part of a winning franchise -- would certainly be the top two considerations for Joe as he looks for the new contract. But all other things being equal -- would Joe be more likely to consider another team if he thinks Cam will be here more than another year or two? Is it conceivable that deep down he suspects Cam will hold him back from his potential?

    This is all sheer speculation on my part with no evidence whatsoever to support it. I have no idea what Joe really thinks of Cam these days. But the odd thought has sometimes crossed my mind ever since it was announced contract negotiations had started with Joe.




  6. #21
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    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    If Cam calls games like he did in the AFCC Game then it won't be a problem.

    However, and this is the problem, that game was more of an anomaly than anything. Cam's offense lives and dies by the ground game.

    I'd love to see Flacco throw for 4,000+ yards and 30 TD's, but it likely won't happen while Cam is the OC in Baltimore.
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  7. #22

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    The Ravens need to be more effective running and passing the ball. To do that they are going to need to be more creative and not so predictable. That may not mean more passing attempts but passing at times when teams are expecting run.

    The team was inefficient running the ball last year and the oline is not going to be better this year. Rice should get a deal done now as he might see his stats dip and he will be a year older as a rb next year.

    The Ravens need to get Flacco done before the season. Really do not want that contract hanging over their heads next year. It's really a lose/lose situation for the Ravens if they don't sign him. I don't think his value goes down from where it is right now. Even if the Ravens do not make the playoffs next year they will need to franchise him. They are not going to offer him less than what they are offering this year because that would just piss him off.




  8. Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    If I was ozzie why would i sign Flacco right now instead of making him play out his contract this year? You hold a fire to Flacco tail and make him work this season for this money. You pay Flacco now than he is distracted by the money. Wife telling him how to spend it and where they want to move to and houses to buy. Family members calling him up. Its more than what meets the eye about giving these guys money before they play out their contract.


    Let Flacco play out his contract this season. Make him prove to ozzie that he can perform at a high level and than you reward him. Flacco is on the upside but he still has more to prove....like his ability to carry a team on his shoulders. You can resign him week 17 or in the playoffs if your so concerned about letting his contract expire at seasons end.




  9. #24

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by mommathurgoesthatman View Post
    If I was ozzie why would i sign Flacco right now instead of making him play out his contract this year? You hold a fire to Flacco tail and make him work this season for this money. You pay Flacco now than he is distracted by the money. Wife telling him how to spend it and where they want to move to and houses to buy. Family members calling him up. Its more than what meets the eye about giving these guys money before they play out their contract.


    Let Flacco play out his contract this season. Make him prove to ozzie that he can perform at a high level and than you reward him. Flacco is on the upside but he still has more to prove....like his ability to carry a team on his shoulders. You can resign him week 17 or in the playoffs if your so concerned about letting his contract expire at seasons end.

    If he plays out this year and has a better year statistically the cost to resign him goes up. If the Ravens struggle on offense this year what do you do next year? Reduce your offer to him? He won't sign it. Franchise him? Probably but now you are on the hook for about 16m for one season. Flacco has all the leverage as he is a franchise qb that plays in probably the worst offensive scheme with the worst personnel for QBs. In the back of his mind it might be better for him to go somewhere else. The Ravens were terrible at QB for so long and now they have one that can be good for the long haul. You get him signed so you don't have to worry about that position. Before Flacco the Ravens were in and out of the playoffs. Since Flacco they have consistently been a playoff team. The Defense and running game is no better than before Flacco and the team consistently makes the playoffs.




  10. Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    If he plays out this year and has a better year statistically the cost to resign him goes up. If the Ravens struggle on offense this year what do you do next year? Reduce your offer to him? He won't sign it. Franchise him? Probably but now you are on the hook for about 16m for one season. Flacco has all the leverage as he is a franchise qb that plays in probably the worst offensive scheme with the worst personnel for QBs. In the back of his mind it might be better for him to go somewhere else. The Ravens were terrible at QB for so long and now they have one that can be good for the long haul. You get him signed so you don't have to worry about that position. Before Flacco the Ravens were in and out of the playoffs. Since Flacco they have consistently been a playoff team. The Defense and running game is no better than before Flacco and the team consistently makes the playoffs.
    Ok. The Ravens could give him a deal today and he can have a worse season than last year. So would they still get their money worth?

    The point is the QB position is the most important and highest paid position in football. If you believe you have a franchise qb you pay him to keep him. You adjust to him. Flacco IMO is on the upside especially after the AFC title game. He still has more to prove. You make him play out this season if your not sold on him yet. Ozzie and company have to make that decesion. If they believe Flacco can carry this team you dont franchise him. You sign him to a long term deal so that position is solidified and you can begin to build your team around him.




  11. #26
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    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    I really don't see how we need to "build a team around him" we already have a team built, a team that was one stripped ball away from the SB, and a team that has made four play offs in a row now. You are going on as if we are the Rams or something. We probably don't have the best of receivers in the league, but they are pretty good compared to a lot of teams. We are built around running the ball and playing good defense, this is the way the Ravens have always been, so I don't see us going out and throwing away a bunch of money, or using high draft picks on receivers at the expense of the defense.




  12. #27

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by mommathurgoesthatman View Post
    Ok. The Ravens could give him a deal today and he can have a worse season than last year. So would they still get their money worth?

    The point is the QB position is the most important and highest paid position in football. If you believe you have a franchise qb you pay him to keep him. You adjust to him. Flacco IMO is on the upside especially after the AFC title game. He still has more to prove. You make him play out this season if your not sold on him yet. Ozzie and company have to make that decesion. If they believe Flacco can carry this team you dont franchise him. You sign him to a long term deal so that position is solidified and you can begin to build your team around him.
    I just don't see any question that he is a franchise qb. In my opinion getting a deal done this year will be easier than after next season. Regardless of how he does this year he will not accept less money from the Ravens so why delay it? If I were a QB and not a Ravens fan Baltimore would not be high on my list of teams for whom I would like to play. The offensive scheme would stifle any QB.


    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I really don't see how we need to "build a team around him" we already have a team built, a team that was one stripped ball away from the SB, and a team that has made four play offs in a row now. You are going on as if we are the Rams or something. We probably don't have the best of receivers in the league, but they are pretty good compared to a lot of teams. We are built around running the ball and playing good defense, this is the way the Ravens have always been, so I don't see us going out and throwing away a bunch of money, or using high draft picks on receivers at the expense of the defense.
    The Ravens receivers are probably not middle of the road right now. If Torrey Smith develops he could be a very good one. Boldin is a middle of the road #2 guy right now. At some point the team has to put together two good receivers. Last year they went with Boldin and a bunch of rookies as their annual wr retread got injured. Having two guys the defense has to respect will open up some things in the running game. Right now the team has two #2s and not much else. Boldin and Smith were 48th and 71st in catches last year.




  13. #28

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Regardless of how he does this year he will not accept less money from the Ravens so why delay it?
    I don't understand what you mean by this. "Less" than what? We don't even know where the negotiations stand. We do know his agent was chirping about top 5 money. I can assure you that if a deal isn't done, and Flacco finishes with similar stats in 2012 as 2011, his bargaining power will be negatively affected, and top 5 money won't be an option (not that it really is right now, imo, but we will see).

    The Ravens do have some bargaining power despite what you are implying. The bargaining power is that Joe is under contract for another year. Yes, there is a risk to waiting until next year, but that doesn't translate into "pay whatever it takes to reduce that risk to zero."


    I think he signs before the start of the season, but I don't think he gets top-5 money. And if he demands that or very close to that, I would make him play to 2013.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 05-15-2012 at 06:19 PM.




  14. #29

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by this. "Less" than what? We don't even know where the negotiations stand. We do know his agent was chirping about top 5 money. I can assure you that if a deal isn't done, and Flacco finishes with similar stats in 2012 as 2011, his bargaining power will be negatively affected, and top 5 money won't be an option (not that it really is right now, imo, but we will see).

    The Ravens do have some bargaining power despite what you are implying. The bargaining power is that Joe is under contract for another year. Yes, there is a risk to waiting until next year, but that doesn't translate into "pay whatever it takes to reduce that risk to zero."


    I think he signs before the start of the season, but I don't think he gets top-5 money. And if he demands that or very close to that, I would make him play to 2013.
    I was not implying that they pay him whatever it takes. I don't think he deserves top 5 money. The Ravens have bargaining power this year but that goes away next year. Next year they would be forced to franchise him or let him go. The franchise tender would be huge. I believe this year it was 16m. Regardless of what happens this season Joe is not going to take less than what he would take this year. There is no benefit to the Ravens letting Joe play out his contract unless they have doubts they want him long term. I for one do not want to see the Ravens go back to journey men and failed picks at the qb position.




  15. #30

    Re: Will Ravens Offense Become More Pass Happy In Flacco's Contract year?

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    I was not implying that they pay him whatever it takes. I don't think he deserves top 5 money. The Ravens have bargaining power this year but that goes away next year. Next year they would be forced to franchise him or let him go. The franchise tender would be huge. I believe this year it was 16m. Regardless of what happens this season Joe is not going to take less than what he would take this year. There is no benefit to the Ravens letting Joe play out his contract unless they have doubts they want him long term. I for one do not want to see the Ravens go back to journey men and failed picks at the qb position.
    Joe will take the most that is offered to him next year (with the possible exception of taking a bit less to stay here in a familiar setting after having a huge season). The amount of what is offered to him next year is certainly dependent on what happens in the 2012 season; therefore, what "Joe will take" isn't the deciding factor as much as what "Joe can get." There is a third option for next year other than franchising or letting him go, and that is to pay him what everyone else if offering (or in other words paying him his market value at the time).

    Obviously signing him now to a fair price (what is fair is debatable but you seem to agree top-5 is too much) is a better option than waiting until after 2012. But it takes two to reach a deal, not just the Ravens. Much with the Rice situation, the issue will come down to reaching an agreement that is sensible and reasonable to both sides. If Joe is refusing what the Ravens feel is reasonable (right now), and I am not saying he is because I have no idea the status of the talks, then making him play 2012 is a real option. This is the case even if the Ravens do not "have doubts they want him long term," because there is an assumed conditional to that phrase of "at a fair/sensible price."

    This is a risk/reward or cost/benefit decision, it is dependent on more than whether they like Flacco (long term). It is dependent on how much it would cost to get him to sign now. The higher that is, the more sensible it becomes to make him play out 2012. If the guy already demands top-5 money, for example, and you are unsure he deserves it, for example, then what real risk is there in letting him play 2012? If he crushes it, so what, he is already asking for money as if he has been and will be crushing it, all that it means is that you have to give in and pay him top-5 money. Maybe it is a little more than what he is asking for now, but he is already asking for a lot (assuming top-5 demand). The alternative is that he has a season where he doesn't quite take the next full step (in stats/consistency, etc), in which case he will certainly take less than top-5 money (because no one will offer him that or more). You still get him long term but for cheaper, which helps the long term prospect of the team (can spend the difference in money elsewhere).

    No one wants to see their team settle for journeymen or failed picks at the QB position, but that isn't the same thing as wanting to pay any QB that happens not to be a journeymen or failed pick much more than he is worth. To some degree, I think our past failure in the QB department has led some to overestimate the quality of QB play. To be sure we are getting good QB play, but whether it is great or deserves to be paid as great is a different question. Telling me the play is significantly better than Boller's play, still doesn't tell me whether the play is good or great. Both fall into the category of 'significantly better than Boller.'

    I also think our ineptitude in finding a QB in the past decade has been overstated. We only made 1 effort to find a longterm QB before Joe, and that was Boller. We whiffed there, we hit with Joe. We are 1 for 2. We probably handled Boller the wrong way and waited a year or even two too long to realize the experiment had failed, but those are separate issues. As for journeymen, Grbac is considered a "failure" but he really didn't play horribly, and certainly not any worse than Dilfer had the previous year. Blake/Redman in 2002 wasn't a serious effort. Journeyman McNair was, and it paid off with 13-3 and bye, before his career crashed and burned the next year.

    Like I said, I hope we sign Joe longterm before this season gets under way. But I think whether that happens depends much more on Joe's demands than anything else. And Joe isn't holding all the cards even if he is holding good ones.




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