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  1. #61
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?



    I believe they would have a pretty good chance if they took this to court, but the fallout is just not worth it.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I don't know. Sounds like it could get ugly. Jerry Jones implied a couple of weeks ago that he would be willing to sue the NFL over this.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ues-of-relief/

    But Burbank hints at what could come next. Near the conclusion of his ruling, Burbank says that, “if the Clubs ‘are dissatisfied with the representation of [their] multi-employer association,’ they retain whatever ‘remedies [they may have] against the association under contract and agency law.’”

    In English, this means the Cowboys and Redskins could sue the NFL for violating internal rules and regulations and/or any applicable fiduciary duties that require the league to represent the interests of all teams equally and fairly. Burbank’s ruling seems to suggest that the Cowboys and Redskins tried to push such principles under the CBA, which means that they very well could choose to pursue such arguments in a full-blown lawsuit.
    Interesting article. Couldn't help but point out this part:

    Speaking of the 2006 CBA, a chance remains that the Cowboys and Redskins will next turn to the expired labor deal, since that’s the labor deal under which the disputed player contracts were negotiated and approved. That avenue has merit, and risk, because the appeal process eventually could land on the desk of Judge David Doty, who likely wouldn’t hesitate to call collusion if he sees it.

    And he undoubtedly will see collusion. Because, frankly, there was collusion. The failure of the Cowboys and Redskins to participate in collusion resulted in the cap penalties to which the NFLPA inexplicably agreed.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    Interesting article. Couldn't help but point out this part:
    I don't think collusion is an issue unless the NFLPA wants to get involved. They're the party that was hurt by this. They already cut a deal with the NFL and are staying out so there is no one to claim they were hurt from this collusion.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #64
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    can someone exxplain collision? im assuimg its an unwritten agreement, and its not legally binding? so in this case when it was collusion not to dump money etc in the uncapped year if it went to court the NFL wouldnt have a leg to stand on?

    Or is there more to it than that?




  5. #65
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    According Mrs. HoustonRaven, who is a labor & employment attorney, the definition on wiki is pretty accurate. It reads:

    Collusion is an agreement between two or more persons, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage.
    As it pertains to the NFL, if the owners conspire (i.e. collude) to keep salaries down, at a certain level, etc. they could be found guilty of collusion.

    It takes more then simply getting together and deciding something. It has to be proven that they did so in a deceiving or misleading manner.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #66

    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    I've looked around for a legal definition of collusion, and here's the one that seems to make the most sense:

    Secret cooperation between two or more people or entities in order to fool, defraud, or gain an unfair advantage over another. Price fixing by companies supposed to be competitors is one example of collusion.
    AFAIK, the league didn't conspire to keep the instructions to the teams secret, nor did the teams conspire to reduce player compensation. What they attempted to do was maintain the "level playing field" that the law already allowed them to create, by discouraging overtly manipulative acts.

    I don't think the teams will succeed in court, but the approval of the contracts by the league could be a sticking point. I'd expect the NFL to argue that there was nothing in any one player contract that they could legally use to reject it, while they did have the power to address the pattern of behavior by certain teams.

    But IANAL, nor do I play one on TV.




  7. #67
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Told you... *sigh* the burden of always being right... so heavy I gotta cut back on the lifting my knowledge is so strong




  8. #68
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    According Mrs. HoustonRaven, who is a labor & employment attorney, the definition on wiki is pretty accurate. It reads:



    As it pertains to the NFL, if the owners conspire (i.e. collude) to keep salaries down, at a certain level, etc. they could be found guilty of collusion.

    It takes more then simply getting together and deciding something. It has to be proven that they did so in a deceiving or misleading manner.
    You don't think the NFL approving contracts and then telling teams off the record that they shouldn't be making these contracts isn't deceiving or misleading the NFLPA?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  9. #69

    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    You don't think the NFL approving contracts and then telling teams off the record that they shouldn't be making these contracts isn't deceiving or misleading the NFLPA?
    The NFL didn't tell them off the record. They told every single team that they weren't allowed to use the uncapped year to circumvent later capped years. Literally everybody on this board knew the NFL told teams that so you can't argue it was done in secret. The NFLPA has already signed off on the punishments since the players are still going to be getting the same amount of money, so they're not going to fight it.

    I expect the courts to side with the NFL on this one.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    You don't think the NFL approving contracts and then telling teams off the record that they shouldn't be making these contracts isn't deceiving or misleading the NFLPA?
    What was "off the record"?

    According to reports, the owners were told six times not to do it. 30 of 32 owners managed to follow it.

    A verbal directive is every bit as binding as a written one.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  11. #71
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    What was "off the record"?

    According to reports, the owners were told six times not to do it. 30 of 32 owners managed to follow it.

    A verbal directive is every bit as binding as a written one.
    The owners were told but was the NFLPA? The NFLPA had the understanding that the rules put forth under the old CBA concerning an uncapped year were in effect. The NFL even approved those contracts based on those rules. Since the NFLPA is the one that was hurt by this they needed to be told by the NFL that it wasn't following the agreed upon rules.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  12. #72
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Told you... *sigh* the burden of always being right... so heavy I gotta cut back on the lifting my knowledge is so strong
    Be careful or you'll get a sports hernia like Torrey Smith... Bc




  13. #73
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    The NFL didn't tell them off the record. They told every single team that they weren't allowed to use the uncapped year to circumvent later capped years. Literally everybody on this board knew the NFL told teams that so you can't argue it was done in secret. The NFLPA has already signed off on the punishments since the players are still going to be getting the same amount of money, so they're not going to fight it.

    I expect the courts to side with the NFL on this one.
    I posted earlier in this thread that I don't think that collusion would end up even being an issue for the courts to take up because the NFLPA signed off on it like you wrote. If they don't want to press charges so to speak then that part doesn't matter. That doesn't mean though that there wasn't collision that 4 teams refused to participate in.

    I also don't think that would be the basis of the suit that the Cowboys would be filing. They would be arguing against the power of the Commissioner to penalize based on the amorphous and undefined concept of 'competitive balance'. The NFL is saying that Goodell is able to do anything to protect the competitive balance of the game. What Jerry Jones has been implying is that no one gave Goodell that authority. I hate the Cowboys and Redskins but I also think it's very dangerous for Goodell to start treating franchises the same way he treats the players. I'm very curious to see if Jones pushes this or gives up.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  14. #74
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    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The owners were told but was the NFLPA? The NFLPA had the understanding that the rules put forth under the old CBA concerning an uncapped year were in effect. The NFL even approved those contracts based on those rules. Since the NFLPA is the one that was hurt by this they needed to be told by the NFL that it wasn't following the agreed upon rules.
    In the absence of written rules, like in the uncapped year, the league (or any employer) can impose their own rules and directives as to how to move forward. Yes, a CBA was in place but it provided a provision for an uncapped year. The NFLPA lost any input they had when they agreed to said uncapped year.

    The absence of them not telling the NFLPA (I have not heard if this did or did not actually occur) does not equate collusion. But let's assume for the sake of argument that the NFL did not say one thing to the NFLPA before they made the directive or they handed this penalty down. It all goes away when they did bring them in the loop right before they sanctioned the two teams and made an even split of the money amongst the other teams.

    The approval of the contracts in question, I suspect, had more to do the league not knowing how the CBA would look. Once they ironed out the CBA, the league was in a better position to impose a penalty since they knew down to the dollar the financial impact.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  15. #75

    Re: Will Washington and Dallas get their cap money back?

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    I expect the courts to side with the NFL on this one.
    I seriously doubt that this will ever see the inside of a courtroom. My knowledge of arbitration is limited to a course I took many years ago about the basics of ADR -- my recollection was that the bar to take an arbitrator's ruling into court is set pretty high.

    Redskins have already stated that they will abide, and the Cowboys hit was just $10 million.

    Happy ending for all but the fans of these two NFC has-been teams.
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