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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    We're are not saying that is how it IS, saying that is how it should be. But before governments starting issuing marriage licenses, where did you go to get married?

    But how about you address the leadership of switching stances for contributions.
    So you think I shouldn't be able to be married? So basically your point is that religion and in this case, christian religion, should regulate all marriages? Or should i have acted like i think there is a god for an hour and endured all the suggestions that we should act good because there is this guy up on a cloud somewhere watching? Or should i go to a judge for whom i respect, and have her marry us in a secular ceremony? Christianity doesn't have have exclusive rights to the word marriage. Truthfully, i am considering changing the wording of our union to exlude "marriage" until everyone can be married equally because I think it is wrong for me to assume a title because of some heterosexual privilege. In fact i would like to start a movement for all people who believe in equality of people to divorce and be "civilly unioned". In time the word marriage will become associated with the bigotry of the good ol christian homophobics. Then they can have the word until it fades into atrophy.

    Obama risks losing votes over this. The gay community knows he has always supported marriage equality and there is nothing romney will verbalize that will be more appealing than Obama's position prior to his interview today. Obama risks losing african american vote of those who have problems with gays. It is certainly more potential to lose votes than gain. Of course, the leadership he has shown to take a controversial but correct position might work for him since romney hasnt taken a postion on anything ever that lasted for more than an election cycle.


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  2. #17
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    Yawn.

    Marriage shouldn't even be something the government sanctions. Gay, straight or otherwise. If two consenting adults want to marry, then they should be allowed without government intrusion or approval.

    It's a cheap political trick and the timing of it couldn't be more suspect.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #18
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    So you think I shouldn't be able to be married? So basically your point is that religion and in this case, christian religion, should regulate all marriages?
    Nice try. Please go through where anyone is trying to turn this into a debate about Christianity other than you.

    And yet again you're pretending to play stupid. You know damn well I am not saying religion should regulate marriages, but the EXACT OPPOSITE, if people wanted to be recognized in government it needs to be separate. Did you read the thread?


    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Word... Yea, I'm not a fan of government being involved in marriage at all. I think that everyone who wants to and is over 18 should be allowed to hitch up. My compromise is that everyone is civil unioned, and churches and synagogues, and mosques, and what have you will have the option of blessing whichever civil unions they deem appropriate as "marriages."

    That way marriage stays a religious institution and civil partnership (and the civil benefits like taxes and rights to make medical decisions in an emergency) are available to everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Pretty much where I am too. I might add that civil unions don't have to be just for same-sex couples. Not everyone is religious, and not EVERY religion won't marry same-sex couples. So if we were to take your approach (and pretty much mine) it's not a separate but equal thing, it's religion is separate, not the privileges (if any apply).

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Exactly! All couples get civil unions in order to be legally bound, get tax benefits, receive vet spouse benefits, etc, and then the religious folks can take their civil union papers to a church and get it turned into a marriage. Or not.

    It seems so stupidly simple and obvious that I'm sure no one in power will think of it for at least a couple more election cycles.




  4. #19
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yawn.

    Marriage shouldn't even be something the government sanctions. Gay, straight or otherwise. If two consenting adults want to marry, then they should be allowed without government intrusion or approval.

    It's a cheap political trick and the timing of it couldn't be more suspect.
    Exactly!

    The war on women, the dog-gate - pick anything, it's to be about anything other than his record and the economy.




  5. #20
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    If it's a political trick then that implies that legal same-sex marriage has popular support, which implies that all politicians should embrace the same view. I think Republicans wasted an opportunity to get on the right side of this issue over the last 3 years while Obama "evolved".

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  6. #21
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by chicagoravensfan View Post
    If it's a political trick then that implies that legal same-sex marriage has popular support, which implies that all politicians should embrace the same view. I think Republicans wasted an opportunity to get on the right side of this issue over the last 3 years while Obama "evolved".

    Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk
    It's a political trick to raise campaign money, the links above show that. Not to pander to the evolved view. The view is evolving BUT it's not there yet. Recent California and North Carolina votes show that.




  7. #22
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Romney is vs it just like a good Mormon.

    Meanwhile, OBY loses 41% of the W. VA presidential primary to an inmate and he's even qualified to have a delegation at the DEMs convention just for getting 15% of it and he's in jail.

    So much for leadership. Voters in W. VA almost prefer an inmate.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electio...federal-inmate
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-09-2012 at 11:13 PM.




  8. #23
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Give kudos to Gawker. They are calling the Prez's BS.

    They accurately point out the nuance in his stance. He's hardly supporting it as a "right". He's saying they "should" be allowed to marry. Galen pulled the trigger too soon.

    http://gawker.com/5909002/barack-oba...e-announcement
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #24
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Now this is leadership Galen.



    Man, talk about Palin being confused and this is a Harvard grad.
    __________________________________
    Q: “Let me ask you, let me interrupt and ask you a very quick follow-up question. Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?”

    OBAMA: “No. I don't. I--I—I…”

    ___________________________________





    Kudos to the Hamster. This thread is blowing up in Galen's face.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ht_644238.html
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-09-2012 at 09:00 PM.




  10. #25
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Nice try. Please go through where anyone is trying to turn this into a debate about Christianity other than you.

    And yet again you're pretending to play stupid. You know damn well I am not saying religion should regulate marriages, but the EXACT OPPOSITE, if people wanted to be recognized in government it needs to be separate. Did you read the thread?
    I think you need to read the thread. You have this inherent and incorrect belief that a governement official such as a judge can't "marry" someone but they can. In some states simple notaries can "marry' people. The only government intervention is the one that PROHIBITS marriage between gay people. By allowing gays to marry, you are actually LIFTING government intervention and removing government from the equation. For some reason you think government prohibiting marriage is lack of government intervention while government backing out and thus allowing all people to marry is somehow government getting involved. The ONLY reason government prevents gay people from marrying is because of the church so therefore the church and yes, the christian church in this country, is driving the government intervention that prohibits a behavior. No government intervention equals marriage for all.

    Your problem, just like every other connie on this thread, is that gay marriage isn't a conservative ideology so you have to find something wrong about it so you go to the typical "Big Scary Government getting involved is wrong" when really your problem is something else. What it is I don't know but there is no government intervention in allowing gays to marry.

    Government intervention in most cases restricts behavior and it is exactly what is happening here. No government intervention usually means freedoms such as the freedom to marry. This is why I joke you guys for your "liberty" fetish because you wouldn't know liberty if it hit you in the head. Restricting people from marrying who they want is a lack of liberty in this country.

    It is consistent with Obama's secular and intellectual approach to politics to come out in support of gay marriage. I have always had a problem with Obama stance on this but understood his quasi-support of it was simply politics. His full support of it, without getting into the legality of rights etc., was the perfect statement. This is something I could care less about how it polls and more about him doing what folks like myself see as the right thing to do. For many people, this is a transformative moment and I am happy for them. You guys can dawdle around with finding ways to condemn it. I would expect nothing less and good luck. Allowing people who love each to fully marry is what liberty is all about. Its been a great day.








  11. #26
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    How can it be consistent with OBY when he just changed his mind after tremendous pressure
    from his own party and they were pressured by the gays. It would have been consistent if
    he came out and said this in 2004 which he didn't.

    In fact, it was Biden who forced OBYs hand. Now that's leadership Galen, the #2 guy
    telling the #1 guy what to do.



    And this link is from the DEMs own site - politicol.com.



    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76103.html
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 05-10-2012 at 01:06 AM.




  12. #27

    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    I'm all for civil unions, like everybody else on this thread who isn't a thief, but not gay marriage. People should have every right to live with whoever they want and do whatever they want.

    The great thing about this is that Obama probably just lost the election and that means a full Republican government by the end of next year. Him saying he supports gay marriage isn't going to win anymore votes from the gay community. People who support gay marriage are by and large democrats, so this didn't help him any. On the other hand, there are a lot more people who will get out and vote against him just because of what he said. Women tend to view the institution of marriage more strictly than men do, so Obama will lose some support from them. Some minorities who supported him the last time time around won't because of this little speech.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, Hi Im Ben may I have a drink please?
    ProFootballMock




  13. #28
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    The thing about my view is that if a gay couple wants to go to a reform synagogue or universalist Unitarian church and get their civil union recognized as a marriage, then that's ok too. A marriage is a religious ceremony and anyone can have a religious ceremony at their particular church.

    Nice thing about my compromise is that it officially removes the government from a religious ceremony while simultaneously granting everyone equal rights to be civilly unionized. I would be fine with my straight marriage being called a civil union, and if my wife wanted it to be called a marriage we could go down to a religious group that we believe in and get our union sanctified.

    I don't see why you'd object to this Galen. I'm suggesting 100% equal treatment under the law for all couples. If private religious groups want to have a ceremony called "a marriage" they still can, but the government wouldn't be involved. There is no reason, aside from "tradition," that the government is involved in marriages at all. I think my compromise is the most strict application of the First Amendment's separation of church and state.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  14. #29
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    I'm all for civil unions, like everybody else on this thread who isn't a thief, but not gay marriage. People should have every right to live with whoever they want and do whatever they want.

    The great thing about this is that Obama probably just lost the election and that means a full Republican government by the end of next year. Him saying he supports gay marriage isn't going to win anymore votes from the gay community. People who support gay marriage are by and large democrats, so this didn't help him any. On the other hand, there are a lot more people who will get out and vote against him just because of what he said. Women tend to view the institution of marriage more strictly than men do, so Obama will lose some support from them. Some minorities who supported him the last time time around won't because of this little speech.

    On theme with that I just saw a possibility of Huck as the VP with Mitt.

    That assures the Christian right which loaths OBYs support of gay marriage.

    Even Carville says DEMs can lose and lose big if they don't connect to the
    middle class.

    OBY just alienated it even more.




  15. #30
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    Re: Obama about to announce support of marriage rights for all?

    OBY really didn't want to do this now. His party leader said to man up but 6 months before
    the election and the president has to lead a war on traditional marriage, when he's losing in landslides?

    Nope, even OBY didn't want this now but was forced into it.

    To recap:

    He's started class warfare declaring war on the rich.

    He declared war on the Church.


    He's now declared war on traditional marriage.

    He's declared war on the coal industry.

    he's declared war on the oil industry.

    He's declared war on the insurance industry.

    He's declared war on capitalism.

    He's declared war on wall street using his OWS.

    What's left for him to declare war on?

    Bad timing indeed.




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