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  1. #13
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore



    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    The reason why owners want new stadiums is for revenue. The Ravens are a top 10 revenue team, they were 8th in 2010. The Falcons were 26th, the Vikings were 30th, the Raiders 31st etc....that's why those teams want new stadiums.

    Adding a roof or 3-D scoreboards or comfy seats won't increase revenue. Adding more luxury boxes is what does it. No reason for any of this is Baltimore
    This is all making an issue out of a non-issue.
    "A lot" is a two word expression denoting a great deal or greatly, as in "I like sunshine a lot." "Alot" is a lovable imaginary grammar monster. You can love a lot; you can love an alot; you can love alots a lot; but they are not the same thing.




  2. #14
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    It's always about revenue, but luxury boxes are not the sole means of revenue / revenue increases.

    If Steve Biscotti is shown a model proving that the teams revenue will increase with a new stadium, complete with an extra 10,000 seats, you bet he'd start lobbying for it.

    GOTA correctly points out we're one of the higher revenue generating team. As our popularity increases so does revenue. And as the revenue increase, so too does demand for tickets, PSL's, etc. There are three solutions to this increase in popularity -- raise prices, add more seats or build new a stadium that accomplishes both.

    Personally, I'd love to see a Reliant type stadium in the Baltimore area. A retractable roof would make the building a year-round destination for events in addition to the football season. The money generated from such a venue would pay for the stadium in a matter of years so you'd need not worry if the funds used were public or not.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #15
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    Aug 2006
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Don't know what every became of it, but my buddy works for a very large construction/development company. About 2 years ago, he said the company was drawing up plans to add another deck to the stadium, to bump it to 100K capacity. Maybe it was a concept?




  4. #16
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    I have never gone to a Ravens home game in the 10 years I've had season tickets and thought "This stadium is really dated. It could sure use some work or a replacement."...no doubt that massive renovations or a new stadium will be needed down the road, but that is way, way down the road IMO, certainly not in the next five to ten years. The only thing I could see at this time is escalators to the upper deck, as others have mentioned. But this doesn't seem like something they want to do, considering the upgrades and renovations they've done in the past few years have never mentioned this even being considered.




  5. #17
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    Aug 2006
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    I don't see the Ravens wanting a new stadium for quite a few years. As others have posted, they keep doing upgrades and stuff to it. And as long as they remain pretty high up in the revenue ranking, they'll stay happy.
    "I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused" - Elvis Costello





  6. #18

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Personally, I'd love to see a Reliant type stadium in the Baltimore area. A retractable roof would make the building a year-round destination for events in addition to the football season. The money generated from such a venue would pay for the stadium in a matter of years so you'd need not worry if the funds used were public or not.
    Me too. Reliant is the best NFL stadium that I have visited. More vertical design for better perspectives, as in urban venues like the Superdome. Retractable roof, glass paneled club section facing inside.

    But the probability of our seeing a Reliant type stadium here are between slim and none. Baltimore politicians have twice killed retractable roof plans. Hell ... our planners and political leaders are so pathetic as to kill even the basic amenity of escalators. The only way I see a Reliant type stadium would be if plans were to fizzle for the downtown basketball arena to adjoin an expanded Convention Center, and a domed football stadium were to replace it.

    Notwithstanding some of the contray opinions above, I do believe that the Ravens will be seeking major upgrades to the stadium in the not-too-distant future. We may have the #10 revenue producer today, but that will likely slip due to improved revenue from other teams: stadium upgrades at Minneapolis & St. Louis and/or possible Los Angeles expansion/relocation and/or Bills to wealthy Toronto. The Ravens continually look over their shoulders at other teams to establish ticket prices in the upper half of NFL teams, and I expect they do so for total revenues. I don't believe the Ravens will get back into the same rate of ticket price gouging of the previous decade for fear of creating blackouts, so I look to stadium "improvements", five years or so out, as a mechanism to gain more revenues. e.g. more clubs seats and suites around the video boards. Don't be surprised to see a portion of the midfield lower decks also converted to premium seats.

    Just don't hold your breath until the missing escalators are installed - there's no revenue benefit by adding comfort to upper deck patrons.
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  7. #19

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    It's going to happen. I predict sooner rather than later: within 3 to 5 years the Ravens will start complaining about being in the lower tier of NFL stadiums and looking for a "public/private partnership" to fund upgrades. I predict in the $1/2 billion range. Watch your wallets!
    I'm thinking in 10 years they'll start pushing for a major upgrade. Also, although you are right about the PSL clause, I believe the Ravens did in fact sign a 30 year lease with the Maryland Stadium Authority.

    Now Mista T you make some good points here, but quite frankly I've only heard one person say that M&T is anywhere near the "lower tier" of NFL stadiums. Most folks who have visited the Vault pretty much raved about it as compared to other stadia. No sir I'm afraid the only person who I've heard really complain about it is, well, you.
    If you break the rules you can't make the rules.
    - Remove Coach Tomlin from the NFL Competition committee.




  8. #20

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    I have been to a fair amount of stadiums and M&T is up there with the best of them. If there was a great demanded for luxury boxes, then maybe I could see either a major overhaul or even a new stadium but Baltimore just does not have that need. As far as I can tell, they did it right the first time with the number of boxes. They could add some more regular seating to M&T to increase revenue by completely closing in the corners of the upper deck. Just my humble opinion but I think the stadium, with some minor tweaks is fine for the next 10-20 years. It would be nice to see some better/permanent entertainment areas (bars) off of the lower concourse.
    Everybody's talkin' at me; I don't hear a word they're saying; Only the echoes of my mind

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  9. #21
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    Aug 2007
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    I don't think T is complaining.

    But he is right, IMO. When it was built, it wasn't a top tier stadium. Here we are almost 20 years later, other stadia have been built since, pushing M&T further down the list in terms of accommodations. So in that regard, it does sit toward to bottom. I'd characterize it as the top of the list of the bottom 30% of stadia.

    I'd put Oakland, Candlestick, FedEx, Miami (whatever they are calling it these days), Buffalo, San Diego and Tampa behind M&T.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #22
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I don't think T is complaining.

    But he is right, IMO. When it was built, it wasn't a top tier stadium. Here we are almost 20 years later, other stadia have been built since, pushing M&T further down the list in terms of accommodations. So in that regard, it does sit toward to bottom. I'd characterize it as the top of the list of the bottom 30% of stadia.

    I'd put Oakland, Candlestick, FedEx, Miami (whatever they are calling it these days), Buffalo, San Diego and Tampa behind M&T.
    Top of the bottom 30% is still kind of low. Besides the ones you listed I can think of another 7-10 to rank under M&T which IMO would put them at least in the middle of the pack.
    "What would you give for the man beside you?"




  11. #23
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    Jun 2011
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    But the probability of our seeing a Reliant type stadium here are between slim and none. Baltimore politicians have twice killed retractable roof plans. Hell ... our planners and political leaders are so pathetic as to kill even the basic amenity of escalators. The only way I see a Reliant type stadium would be if plans were to fizzle for the downtown basketball arena to adjoin an expanded Convention Center, and a domed football stadium were to replace it.
    We're talking about two different entities. As I understand it, while the City has input into the Stadium situation, whatever it may be, it's out of their hands as MSA runs the show. So I'm not sure it'll be up to the city whether the Ravens get a new stadium or what that stadium looks like. (Besides, Hyman Pressman is long gone)

    Having said that, I think that the City, whether the new arena is tacked onto the Convention Center or not (and certainly moreso if the new arena isn't built), would support a new Reliant-style stadium for the Ravens in 15-20 years from now.

    As it stands now, they've been dragging their feet on the Hackerman arena proposal, but they're still looking down the road at a still-relatively new DC Convention Center and the still-uncompleted National Harbor as well as up the road at an evolving Philadelphia stadium complex area. They're going to have to come around at some point if they're serious about competing in the next few years, let alone in the next 20-30 years.

    If they are, I think the City will be looking for every edge to compete (as we've seen with them doing everything they possibly can to keep the Grand Prix alive). While the City wouldn't own or control a new Reliant-style stadium, I'm sure they would want to work closely with MSA to connect the two facilities for conventions and other events.

    These are the same people who started a free bus service where MTA already goes and have floated the idea of building a footbridge across the Harbor. I don't think a Reliant-style stadium, if replacement of M&T becomes an issue, would be out of the conversation from the City's POV. They'll still have a city-built hotel to fill at the time and if the casino is built nearby, they'll have slots machines and tables to fill as well.

    Besides, the fact of M&T and the changes that have been made in that area have driven up home prices. A new stadium with a continued Ravens presence as well as any new outside amenities will help to drive real estate prices up further. That would mean more tax revenue for the city, which puts them in the position of having skin in the game (even more if the Westport development goes through finally by that time)

    Whatever the Ravens stadium situation ends up being at that point, assuming Bisciotti still owns the team, I expect the relationship between the team and the MSA to be as good as it is right now. By all accounts, the relationship is very good and certainly better than the O's, who have been in the City much longer. I think at that time, both sides will understand that how important the team is to the City and the area and will come together to decide what the future of the stadium will be. I think upgrades will be on the table, but I think a Reliant-type stadium will be there as well. It might even become the elephant in the room and the Ravens might not even be the ones trying to drive the conversation. They might just want more suites and premium seats.
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    Baltimore Colts (AAFC): 1947-1950
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  12. #24

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    I thought that teams usually signed 30 year agreements when they move into a publicly funded stadium. Maybe that's just for baseball. But I don't see much of a point to adding a roof to M&T. Not many of our games have rain or snow, it's not like we're up north or anything, or down south where it gets really hot. The only real reason to do it would be to be able to host the Super Bowl.

    In terms of the seating capacity issue. NFL stadia are artficially small due to the blackout rule. Every stadium in the league could comfortably be 100,000+ if they wanted to be (several college stadia are well over 100,000), but no team wants to risk a non sellout where the game won't be available to their home market. Get rid of the blackout rule, and you'll see stadia expanding, and tickets becoming more accessable to the masses.




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