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  1. #1

    Lightbulb NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore



    The construction of new NFL stadiums or major upgrades has been accelerating at a pace similar to the mid/late-90s stadium boom:

    • Cowboys & Cardinals new Taj Mahals, plus a new $2B Hackensack Dump in Jersey
    • Superdome upgraded with Katrina reconstruction $$ (many thanks to you & me & other US taxpayers)
    • Arrowhead got $1/2 billion new clubs, scoreboards
    • Bears & Packers & Jaguars upgrades
    • Miami added new escalators, expanded concourses, and plans to add a rooflet to shade fans
    • Metrodome replacement is a legislative conference meeting away from funding
    • Rams & St. Louis are trading proposals for mandatory hundreds of millions Dome upgrade
    • Blank wants a new topless stadium built in safer area of Atlanta
    • 49rs to build a new stadium at Santa Clara with $80,000 PSLs
    • Raiders may follow into Santa Clara



    Every NFL owner (except Ralph Wilson) is continually looking over his shoulder at what his business partners are doing -- e.g. ticket price gouging by all NFL teams. With half the NFL teams in new or recently refurbished stadiums, how long will it be until Steve Bisciotti makes demands for upgrades ... or hints that there are greener pastures elsewhere?

    It won't happen here because:

    • Bisciotti is a local boy? Maybe. but he also became a billionaire by being a smart businessman
    • our stadium is too new? maybe, but Atlanta, Jax rebuild, St Louis aren't old, and they are also modern football-only stadiums
    • our publicly funded stadium helps make the Ravens profitable? Sure, but stadium upgrades could add to the profitability.



    It's going to happen. I predict sooner rather than later: within 3 to 5 years the Ravens will start complaining about being in the lower tier of NFL stadiums and looking for a "public/private partnership" to fund upgrades. I predict in the $1/2 billion range. Watch your wallets!

    (btw: Tony L had some April foolery about a new stadium a few months ago about building a new suburban stadium. That joke may not be far from the mark).
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  2. #2
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    The construction of new NFL stadiums or major upgrades has been accelerating at a pace similar to the mid/late-90s stadium boom...
    It won't happen here because:
    ...because we were already part of the last boom.

    Most of the stadia you listed are much older, or replaced much older models. The Georgia Dome is comparable because it was built in '92, but that's even older than M&T, opened in 1998. The roof idea comes up, but that's a tough sell, even more now that they have nearly committed to expanding the convention center with an adjoining arena.




  3. #3
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    It won't happen here because:


    •Bisciotti is a local boy? Maybe. but he also became a billionaire by being a smart businessman
    •our stadium is too new? maybe, but Atlanta, Jax rebuild, St Louis aren't old, and they are also modern football-only stadiums
    •our publicly funded stadium helps make the Ravens profitable? Sure, but stadium upgrades could add to the profitability.
    I think the Ravens legally locked themselves in with "Permanent Seat Licenses" that we have instead of the 30 year "Personal Seat Licenses" others, like the Panthers, used. I think a pretty good case can be made in court by the owners of these PSLs that the Ravens sold us an everlasting product.

    Now they may make the case we can still use our licenses in Birmingham or where ever and that might fly, but it also precludes the selling of PSLs to the fans in the area of the new stadium. I am no lawyer but the different wording, I think, has tied them to Baltimore in a way that might not have been realized at the time.




  4. #4

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    The construction of new NFL stadiums or major upgrades has been accelerating at a pace similar to the mid/late-90s stadium boom:

    • Cowboys & Cardinals new Taj Mahals, plus a new $2B Hackensack Dump in Jersey
    • Superdome upgraded with Katrina reconstruction $$ (many thanks to you & me & other US taxpayers)
    • Arrowhead got $1/2 billion new clubs, scoreboards
    • Bears & Packers & Jaguars upgrades
    • Miami added new escalators, expanded concourses, and plans to add a rooflet to shade fans
    • Metrodome replacement is a legislative conference meeting away from funding
    • Rams & St. Louis are trading proposals for mandatory hundreds of millions Dome upgrade
    • Blank wants a new topless stadium built in safer area of Atlanta
    • 49rs to build a new stadium at Santa Clara with $80,000 PSLs
    • Raiders may follow into Santa Clara



    Every NFL owner (except Ralph Wilson) is continually looking over his shoulder at what his business partners are doing -- e.g. ticket price gouging by all NFL teams. With half the NFL teams in new or recently refurbished stadiums, how long will it be until Steve Bisciotti makes demands for upgrades ... or hints that there are greener pastures elsewhere?

    It won't happen here because:

    • Bisciotti is a local boy? Maybe. but he also became a billionaire by being a smart businessman
    • our stadium is too new? maybe, but Atlanta, Jax rebuild, St Louis aren't old, and they are also modern football-only stadiums
    • our publicly funded stadium helps make the Ravens profitable? Sure, but stadium upgrades could add to the profitability.



    It's going to happen. I predict sooner rather than later: within 3 to 5 years the Ravens will start complaining about being in the lower tier of NFL stadiums and looking for a "public/private partnership" to fund upgrades. I predict in the $1/2 billion range. Watch your wallets!

    (btw: Tony L had some April foolery about a new stadium a few months ago about building a new suburban stadium. That joke may not be far from the mark).
    Totally agree...give them 6-7 years and we'll start hearing the chirping. Stadiums seem to only last about 20 years these days and M&T is on year 15.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    ...because we were already part of the last boom.

    Most of the stadia you listed are much older, or replaced much older models. The Georgia Dome is comparable because it was built in '92, but that's even older than M&T, opened in 1998. The roof idea comes up, but that's a tough sell, even more now that they have nearly committed to expanding the convention center with an adjoining arena.
    The Rams are also are throwing a fit and I think their stadium is only a year or 2 older. I believe the Dolphins are talking about upgrades. Even the Panthers are looking into something 10-15 years down the road.

    I don't think it'll happen quite as fast as T put it, but it's coming...




  5. #5

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    ...because we were already part of the last boom.

    Most of the stadia you listed are much older, or replaced much older models. The Georgia Dome is comparable because it was built in '92, but that's even older than M&T, opened in 1998. The roof idea comes up, but that's a tough sell, even more now that they have nearly committed to expanding the convention center with an adjoining arena.
    Agreed.


    See the power outage at Candlestick this year or that whole roof collapsing at the Metrodome...and the Raiders play at the last full multi-purpose stadium in the NFL. Superdome = Most Destructive hurricane in US history.

    The Ravens share one of the best sports complexes in the country with great road and Metro access (go to a Redskins game) in the best location in downtown Baltimore. I don't see the greener pastures.




  6. #6

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Heinz field and Lincoln Park are on par with M&T in terms of location, transportation, and amenities and I don't think they are sweating.

    If anything, I hear more bitching out of DC about their monstrosity then anything.




  7. #7

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I think the Ravens legally locked themselves in with "Permanent Seat Licenses" that we have instead of the 30 year "Personal Seat Licenses" others, like the Panthers, used. I think a pretty good case can be made in court by the owners of these PSLs that the Ravens sold us an everlasting product...... the different wording, I think, has tied them to Baltimore in a way that might not have been realized at the time.
    Greg -- re-read Article 1 in your PSL agreement:

    the Seat Licenses granted to to Licensee to purchase the number of Season Ticket(s) for the designated Stadium Area shown on Exhibit A during such period of time as NFL football is played at the stadium
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).




  8. #8
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    I think the Ravens legally locked themselves in with "Permanent Seat Licenses" that we have instead of the 30 year "Personal Seat Licenses" others, like the Panthers, used. I think a pretty good case can be made in court by the owners of these PSLs that the Ravens sold us an everlasting product.

    Now they may make the case we can still use our licenses in Birmingham or where ever and that might fly, but it also precludes the selling of PSLs to the fans in the area of the new stadium. I am no lawyer but the different wording, I think, has tied them to Baltimore in a way that might not have been realized at the time.

    I know a couple of fans that had original PSLs and just sold them at a profit
    so it is a good investment of sorts.

    Oriole Park is getting some age but still looks better than most stadiums and is
    still the best place in the country to watch baseball.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  9. #9

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    I know a couple of fans that had original PSLs and just sold them at a profit
    so it is a good investment of sorts.

    Oriole Park is getting some age but still looks better than most stadiums and is
    still the best place in the country to watch baseball.
    I love camden yards.




  10. Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    They have already been upgrading the stadium the past few years, they have added new HD scoreboards, new artificial turf replaced, added more seats, added a few bar areas.... The club suites and levels are already top notch and on par with any modern stadium taking up 2 levels of of the middle concourse. I dont see where any if much improvement is needed.
    Season ticket holder since 1996 Section 148 Tailgate Lot H
    See my photos and video at www.bmoreravens.com




  11. #11

    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    There is nothing wrong with this stadium. The only upgrade I would like to see is escalaters to the upper deck. Other then that what more could they do? a roof? They cant do what they did at Camden yards with replacing the seats with wider more comfy seats with better sigh lines because they would have to reduce the seating capacity which wont happen




  12. #12
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    Re: NFL stadium-mania - when, not "if", it comes to Baltimore

    The reason why owners want new stadiums is for revenue. The Ravens are a top 10 revenue team, they were 8th in 2010. The Falcons were 26th, the Vikings were 30th, the Raiders 31st etc....that's why those teams want new stadiums.

    Adding a roof or 3-D scoreboards or comfy seats won't increase revenue. Adding more luxury boxes is what does it. No reason for any of this in Baltimore
    Last edited by GOTA; 05-09-2012 at 08:52 AM.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




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