Ryan Longwell

[GOTA]

I think we all want competition for Cundiff. It's just a question of who do you want to come in. Longwell has had a great career but at 38 you better be sure he can still do it. Why exactly did the Vikings cut him at such a strange time anyway? They did draft a kicker so it's possible they saw the writing on the wall in terms of age and performance.

[bmorecareful]

If Longwell is truly one of the worst kickers in the league then Cundiff would have no problem beating him out, right?

Actually (as bad as Longwell's season was last year, which was a career low for him...he is 37/38 years old) Cundiff's was still worse [percentage wise].


It's not that I don't like Cundiff. I just think it was the wrong approach to not give this guy legit competition last year before signing him to a fairly substantial deal. His year in 2010 was excellent, no doubt, but he just didn't look the same at all last year. Maybe he was hurt. Who knows.

Since Longwell is so bad, yes Cundiff should easily beat him, but then that wouldn't show much about his ability, would it? Even a mediocre kicker is worse than a terrible one--and that's what we have here, a mediocre kicker (Cundiff) and a terrible one (Longwell.)

I'll come right out and say it--I don't like Cundiff. I think he bought himself a ton of goodwill off of his 2010 campaign where he kicked a zillion touchbacks but still wasn't actually all that great of a kicker. The touchbacks helped conceal how bad our coverage units and STs as a whole were, but I knew he couldn't sustain that performance because nobody can. Now we know that we actually need to have decent coverage units and can't rely on Cundiff for touchbacks, but we should have always known that.

Cundiff only tried 1 50+ yard FG in 2010 and he missed it. He tried 6 of them in 2011 and missed 5 of them. That's why his percentage dropped so much--otherwise his kicking was pretty consistent between 2010 and 2011. And that's the problem I have with Cundiff; he can't do what an NFL kicker needs to be able to do to be really good.

EVERY NFL kicker has to make 90% or better on all kicks 40 yards and under, every time, every year, and if not they are not an NFL kicker. Cundiff can do that for the most part. However, to be a GOOD NFL kicker, they have to do at least 1 of 2 things:

1) Be clutch, OR
2) Be fairly dependable on 50+ yard FGs.

Cundiff is neither. He isn't clutch and he can't kick long FGs. With our inconsistent offense, we need to have 1 of the 2 at least, and preferably both. I'm not sure what a better option is out there, but bringing in competition won't hurt. It just has to be competition that has the potential to be a good NFL kicker, per my requirements above.

[wickedsolo]

I think we all want competition for Cundiff. It's just a question of who do you want to come in. Longwell has had a great career but at 38 you better be sure he can still do it. Why exactly did the Vikings cut him at such a strange time anyway? They did draft a kicker so it's possible they saw the writing on the wall in terms of age and performance.

I'd keep an eye on the Texans as well. They drafted Bullock, so Neil Rackers could find himself on the outs.

Another name I'd be interested in is Kai Forbath. He was signed by the Cowboys last year as a UDFA rookie, but the Cowboys really like Dan Bailey. They put Forbath on their practice squad and I believe he was signed by the Bucs because they franchised Conner Barth. I doubt Forbath beats out Barth in Tampa, so it's possible Forbath makes his way onto the open market. He was one of the better kickers at UCLA 2 years ago and was a Lou Groza finalist I believe.

[HoustonRaven]

I'd keep an eye on the Texans as well. They drafted Bullock, so Neil Rackers could find himself on the outs.

I think you mean Shayne Graham.

[GOTA]

I'd keep an eye on the Texans as well. They drafted Bullock, so Neil Rackers could find himself on the outs.

Another name I'd be interested in is Kai Forbath. He was signed by the Cowboys last year as a UDFA rookie, but the Cowboys really like Dan Bailey. They put Forbath on their practice squad and I believe he was signed by the Bucs because they franchised Conner Barth. I doubt Forbath beats out Barth in Tampa, so it's possible Forbath makes his way onto the open market. He was one of the better kickers at UCLA 2 years ago and was a Lou Groza finalist I believe.

They cut Rackers before the draft. He signed with the Redskins to compete with Gano.

I like Forbath too. He's exactly the kind of player they need to look at should he hit the market.

[wickedsolo]

Since Longwell is so bad, yes Cundiff should easily beat him, but then that wouldn't show much about his ability, would it? Even a mediocre kicker is worse than a terrible one--and that's what we have here, a mediocre kicker (Cundiff) and a terrible one (Longwell.)

I'll come right out and say it--I don't like Cundiff. I think he bought himself a ton of goodwill off of his 2010 campaign where he kicked a zillion touchbacks but still wasn't actually all that great of a kicker. The touchbacks helped conceal how bad our coverage units and STs as a whole were, but I knew he couldn't sustain that performance because nobody can. Now we know that we actually need to have decent coverage units and can't rely on Cundiff for touchbacks, but we should have always known that.

Cundiff only tried 1 50+ yard FG in 2010 and he missed it. He tried 6 of them in 2011 and missed 5 of them. That's why his percentage dropped so much--otherwise his kicking was pretty consistent between 2010 and 2011. And that's the problem I have with Cundiff; he can't do what an NFL kicker needs to be able to do to be really good.

EVERY NFL kicker has to make 90% or better on all kicks 40 yards and under, every time, every year, and if not they are not an NFL kicker. Cundiff can do that for the most part. However, to be a GOOD NFL kicker, they have to do at least 1 of 2 things:

1) Be clutch, OR
2) Be fairly dependable on 50+ yard FGs.

Cundiff is neither. He isn't clutch and he can't kick long FGs. With our inconsistent offense, we need to have 1 of the 2 at least, and preferably both. I'm not sure what a better option is out there, but bringing in competition won't hurt. It just has to be competition that has the potential to be a good NFL kicker, per my requirements above.

The kick off's were something that has bothered me since last season. Cundiff went from drilling touchbacks in 2010...they move kick off's up 5 yards in 2011 and he can barely put the ball in the end zone at all. I don't get it. One thing that I had heard was the ST's coaches were trying to get more loft on the kick off's to give them more time to get down and make a tackle, but obviously that wasn't working too well at all.

To me, it just seemed like Cundiff was looking for a pay day, played as an above average kicker in 2010, got paid, and then became a below avg kicker in 2011.

Cundiff ranked 27 out of 31 kickers [percentage wise] who kicked at least 20 FG attempts last season.

FG's from 50+ yards he was 1 for 6 as bmorecareful pointed out. That is 16.6%, which was the worst in the league. The next worst percentage from 50+ yards was Lawrence Tynes [1 for 3...33.3%] and John Kasay who went 2 for 5 [40%].

[wickedsolo]

I think you mean Shayne Graham.

They cut Rackers before the draft. He signed with the Redskins to compete with Gano.

I like Forbath too. He's exactly the kind of player they need to look at should he hit the market.

You're right, I forgot the Texans cut him and signed Graham.

Speaking of Graham, I thought he did a nice job filling in for Cundiff at the end of last season.

[wickedsolo]

For discussion's sake:

The #1 kicker with FG's 50+ yards last season was Robbie Gould who hit 6 out of 6. Points wise you'd be looking at Phil Dawson (7/8), David Akers (7/9) and Sebastian Janikowski (7/10).


Interesting fact about Robbie Gould: he actually received a tryout for the Ravens in 2005 before being waived. After that he worked in construction until the Bears came-a-calling later that year in 2005 after Doug Brien got hurt.

[Irish Raven]

I still think we watch what plays out in Washington. Gano is battling for job with Rackers.

I remember Gano
Didn't he come out of college with some kicking award and the media talked about him a good bit. Well as UDFA kickers go

Came to camp but got beat out by Steve Hauschka.
I wonder how he'd feel about coming back to the team that first rejected him.

[wickedsolo]

I remember Gano
Didn't he come out of college with some kicking award and the media talked about him a good bit. Well as UDFA kickers go

Came to camp but got beat out by Steve Hauschka.
I wonder how he'd feel about coming back to the team that first rejected him.

He was a Lou Groza award winner out of Florida State (college's best kicker).

The Ravens went with Hauschka over Gano [don't know why that happened...hind sight I guess] and Gano ended up playing for a team in the UFL before being picked up by the Skins. I thought it was a mistake then to go with Hauschka over Gano.

[GOTA]

For discussion's sake:

The #1 kicker with FG's 50+ yards last season was Robbie Gould who hit 6 out of 6. Points wise you'd be looking at Phil Dawson (7/8), David Akers (7/9) and Sebastian Janikowski (7/10).


Interesting fact about Robbie Gould: he actually received a tryout for the Ravens in 2005 before being waived. After that he worked in construction until the Bears came-a-calling later that year in 2005 after Doug Brien got hurt.

A lot of stories like that when it comes to kickers. They really come out of nowhere. Cundiff was out of the league for a while before the Ravens called.

[wickedsolo]

Leigh Tiffin out of Alabama last year is another guy that I have no idea what happened to him. He had a hell of a leg on him in college, tried out for the Browns, was waived, and hasn't been anywhere since.