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  1. #16

    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?



    Here's a quickie I wrote about the subject last night.

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  2. #17
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    Few things ....

    They most certainly did NOT know the risks -- and that's for both the league and players. Yes, people knew that you could get concussions. What was not known until very recently was the impact of repeated concussions and playing with a concussion. That part of concussion science is still fluid and new. So for the players to sue the league over something nobody really understood until recently is pretty silly, IMO.

    Second, the league is bending over backwards in the name of player safety and yet it's the players that are doing the most bitching. Florio has been writing about this for a few weeks now. The younger players don't seem all that interested in new procedures to limit the impact of repeated concussions. Very sad, and quite the hypocritical move on their part, given that player safety was a huge talking point by the NFLPA during the lock out.

    If there is anything that could kill the golden goose, it's this very issue.

    "All the pieces matter" -- Lester Freamon, The Wire.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #18
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Few things ....

    They most certainly did NOT know the risks -- and that's for both the league and players. Yes, people knew that you could get concussions. What was not known until very recently was the impact of repeated concussions and playing with a concussion. That part of concussion science is still fluid and new. So for the players to sue the league over something nobody really understood until recently is pretty silly, IMO.

    Second, the league is bending over backwards in the name of player safety and yet it's the players that are doing the most bitching. Florio has been writing about this for a few weeks now. The younger players don't seem all that interested in new procedures to limit the impact of repeated concussions. Very sad, and quite the hypocritical move on their part, given that player safety was a huge talking point by the NFLPA during the lock out.

    If there is anything that could kill the golden goose, it's this very issue.

    "All the pieces matter" -- Lester Freamon, The Wire.
    I disagree to a certain extent.

    You can certainly argue that no one realized how bad concussions can impact your long term health and like you said, a lot of these things are based on better technology and a better understanding.

    However, football has always been a high risk, high impact sport with the potential for permanent injury. For guys like Jim McMahon or guys like that to come out NOW and say that they didn't know that they could be hurt permanently...I just don't buy it. The players of that time were just as disinterested in the long term impacts as the coaches & owners were.
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  4. #19

    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    What a surprise. HoustonRaven thinks the players are ruining football.

    The information about the danger of repeated concussions was out there, and people were bringing it to the league's attention, long before these last two or three years when the league actually acknowledged it was a real issue.

    Only an apologist would seriously try to lay some kind of blame, if there is any to be had, completely at the feet of the owners or the players.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    What a surprise. HoustonRaven thinks the players are ruining football.

    The information about the danger of repeated concussions was out there, and people were bringing it to the league's attention, long before these last two or three years when the league actually acknowledged it was a real issue.

    Only an apologist would seriously try to lay some kind of blame, if there is any to be had, completely at the feet of the owners or the players.
    What a surprise that Festifus mischaracterized my thoughts.

    I think it's rather clear that I'm not putting any blame or fault on anyone in terms if the concussion issue.
    Last edited by HoustonRaven; 05-07-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    However, football has always been a high risk, high impact sport with the potential for permanent injury. For guys like Jim McMahon or guys like that to come out NOW and say that they didn't know that they could be hurt permanently...I just don't buy it. The players of that time were just as disinterested in the long term impacts as the coaches & owners were.
    Yes, there is certainly known issues with football and certain injuries. However, if I understand these law suits accurately, a busted knee or hip is not the issue. I think both sides would tell you that these types of injuries are part of the game and a risk both sides assumed.

    It's the concussion issue that's the real issue here, an issue that you simply can't lay blame to anyone. I like that the former players and the league are pushing the issue. But the current players seem, at best, indifferent and at most, incredulous over the attempts to keep them safe. Players like Polamalu, who have had multiple concussions but speak out against player safety issues make me shake my head. I really don't think he has a grasp just how bad things could be for him 20 years down the road.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #22
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yes, there is certainly known issues with football and certain injuries. However, if I understand these law suits accurately, a busted knee or hip is not the issue. I think both sides would tell you that these types of injuries are part of the game and a risk both sides assumed.

    It's the concussion issue that's the real issue here, an issue that you simply can't lay blame to anyone. I like that the former players and the league are pushing the issue. But the current players seem, at best, indifferent and at most, incredulous over the attempts to keep them safe.
    And you know you could argue that during the 80's guys like Jim McMahon weren't too concerned with it either.


    To me, this is kind of similar to tobacco companies getting sued by people who smoked for 50 years and now have lung cancer. Sure, the general feeling back in the day was that tobacco use wasn't a big deal and everyone was doing it. Now all of a sudden with cancer being one of the main stage medical issues that everyone talks about you have these guys who are coming out of the woodworks and suing tobacco companies because they have cancer.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  8. #23

    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    I am cynical about linking concussions to suicide. I think you would have to look at the rate by which other athletes who suffer similar head trauma commit suicide. You rarely hear about hockey players and or boxers committing suicide. You have look at the reason for the cause of depression. In football I think you are seeing a lot of players that just struggle with life after the sport. You go from being on top of the world making a ton of money to being more or less forgotten and broke. You have no real skill other than playing football. That is hard to stomach. I have read that most men really struggle with life after retirement even if they are in the latter part of their life. If something has been part of your life for so long and now you no longer have it how do you replace that?

    With the lawsuit I believe you are starting to see players who did not manage their money well who are jumping in on the lawsuit. I am sure there are a few extreme cases where the concussions are affecting their lives but not at the numbers of former players jumping on the lawsuits.




  9. #24
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Regards the suicide thing, i dont think the football players should be allowed to leave college, until the graduate with a degree, so they at least have something they hopefully enjoy, to fall back on when they retire.

    To me i think its coming from everything to nothing, money problems, bordem, etc etc that is the cause of the suicides rather than concussions.

    At least if they have a degree and something to fall back on, a change of life after football, a job, that they love, they might continue on with a happy life...




  10. #25
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    Regards the suicide thing, i dont think the football players should be allowed to leave college, until the graduate with a degree, so they at least have something they hopefully enjoy, to fall back on when they retire.

    To me i think its coming from everything to nothing, money problems, bordem, etc etc that is the cause of the suicides rather than concussions.

    At least if they have a degree and something to fall back on, a change of life after football, a job, that they love, they might continue on with a happy life...
    I don't see how you could stop them. It's not like non-football players always graduate. I like the idea but it's just not enforceable.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  11. #26
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    I agree the NFL will keep "going" and will be fine as a commercial enterprise. Baseball and boxing are both successful commercial enterprises, though not as successful as they once were.

    It just occurred to me, reading about that kid from Rutgers, that there could come a day when it's doing fine as a commercial enterprise without me.
    It would take a culture shift to change the popularity of the NFL. That's what happened with baseball and boxing. Baseball is seen by many as too slow and dull. Boxing is corrupt which makes it tough to buy into. Those sports lost their popularity because of shift in attitude by the consumers.

    I don't see concussions turning NFL fans off. Every year the ratings seem to get bigger and bigger as more people watch even with these news reports.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  12. #27
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I don't see concussions turning NFL fans off. Every year the ratings seem to get bigger and bigger as more people watch even with these news reports.
    I can totally see it.

    If the concussion issue is not handled properly, it can take away from the physicality of the game to such a degree, the fans start seeing a much different game than what they have grown to love.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #28
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I can totally see it.

    If the concussion issue is not handled properly, it can take away from the physicality of the game to such a degree, the fans start seeing a much different game than what they have grown to love.
    We're already seeing a different game in the past 3 or 4 years than the one we love and the rating keep going up. Casual fans love offense. These rules make it a lot easier to score. Most die-hards are going to watch no matter what they do. It's those casual fans that move the needle.
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  14. #29
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    Regards the suicide thing, i dont think the football players should be allowed to leave college, until the graduate with a degree, so they at least have something they hopefully enjoy, to fall back on when they retire.

    To me i think its coming from everything to nothing, money problems, bordem, etc etc that is the cause of the suicides rather than concussions.

    At least if they have a degree and something to fall back on, a change of life after football, a job, that they love, they might continue on with a happy life...
    Dave Duerson made millions after his NFL career and have a great family life. But he still ended up becoming abusive to his family, struggling in business and filing bankruptcy, and eventually killing himself. After having his brain studied it was determined that he suffered from disease linked to concussions.
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!




  15. #30
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    Re: What do we think of Florio's article?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Casual fans love offense. These rules make it a lot easier to score. Most die-hards are going to watch no matter what they do. It's those casual fans that move the needle.

    I watched Lions and Saints in the playoffs last year and while it was high scoring I wouldn't call it a good game.


    To pick a non Ravens game, one of the best games I saw last year was Browns-Steelers.
    Game where McCoy got hurt, Senneca Wallace came in, final score 13-9 Steelers.
    That was an incredible game. Great D, nervous, tight and lots of tension, AFC North football I suppose.

    If casual fans are not satisfied unless they see lots of scores and long bomb passes then that's unfortunate, I hope they try to get into the sport a bit more.




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