View Poll Results: Bigger Impact?

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  • Ray Rice

    14 50.00%
  • T Sizzle

    8 28.57%
  • Both

    3 10.71%
  • Neitheir absence will have impact

    3 10.71%
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  1. #1

    Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?



    Which player absence will have the bigger impact on the team?


    Im going with Ray Rice. Eventhough Suggs will be miss we have depth on the defense line. It may take 3 players to fill Suggs void on defense but atleast we have 3 players backing him up. Ray Rice is a different story. Without Ray Rice I think our offense would be like watching the lil Giants play. Ray Rice bails out Cam and Flacco every game. If it wasnt for Rice it would be very hard for the Ravens to pick up a first down. Even when Cam forgets about him he still finds a way to make plays when the ball gets in his hands. Ray Rice is our offense until futher notice. Although Flacco last game showed me he can play with a chip on his shoulder and perform in the spotlight at a high level.




  2. #2
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    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    That would be a tough call.

    Both are incredible impact players for their respective units. Over the course of the last two seasons Rice has contributed or been a part of over 30% of the offensive production. For 1 player, that is A LOT.

    However, I think the offense can still function without Rice. It won't look the same, but I think the offense could still function without him. If I had any faith that Cam Cameron could call a consistent game I would have no problem saying missing Suggs would be a significantly bigger loss than missing Rice, but Cam is as big of a question mark on this team as any, so that's why it would be a tough choice for me. The reason why I voted for Suggs over Rice though is because even with Rice and the OL not playing well and rendered ineffective in the playoffs, Flacco still was able to put the team on his shoulders and make plays. Flacco has the ability to take over a game.


    That said, Rice is going to sign his franchise tender, suck it up, and play this year and continue negotiating, or accept the contract offer that they've already made him (which according to Tony is right on par with what Arian Foster's deal was in Houston). So, Rice will be a part of the team all season long.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    That would be a tough call.

    Both are incredible impact players for their respective units. Over the course of the last two seasons Rice has contributed or been a part of over 30% of the offensive production. For 1 player, that is A LOT.

    However, I think the offense can still function without Rice. It won't look the same, but I think the offense could still function without him. If I had any faith that Cam Cameron could call a consistent game I would have no problem saying missing Suggs would be a significantly bigger loss than missing Rice, but Cam is as big of a question mark on this team as any, so that's why it would be a tough choice for me. The reason why I voted for Suggs over Rice though is because even with Rice and the OL not playing well and rendered ineffective in the playoffs, Flacco still was able to put the team on his shoulders and make plays. Flacco has the ability to take over a game.


    That said, Rice is going to sign his franchise tender, suck it up, and play this year and continue negotiating, or accept the contract offer that they've already made him (which according to Tony is right on par with what Arian Foster's deal was in Houston). So, Rice will be a part of the team all season long.
    The offense probably could function without Rice. But I'd argue the defense would function at a much higher level without Suggs than the offense could without Rice. The defense just has a much better track record of producing regardless of who is out there. We've had future hall of famers miss games and the defense didn't miss a beat plugging in largely unknown players. Hell, we've been without Suggs and the defense didn't miss a beat.

    I don't want to see a Ravens offense without a great running back. The Ravens track record in none J. Lewis or RR years is not very good.




  4. #4
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    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    The offense probably could function without Rice. But I'd argue the defense would function at a much higher level without Suggs than the offense could without Rice. The defense just has a much better track record of producing regardless of who is out there. We've had future hall of famers miss games and the defense didn't miss a beat plugging in largely unknown players. Hell, we've been without Suggs and the defense didn't miss a beat.

    I don't want to see a Ravens offense without a great running back. The Ravens track record in none J. Lewis or RR years is not very good.
    This. Not to mention the coaches on the defensive side of the ball seem to have a better grasp of how to handle personnel than their offensive counterparts.




  5. #5

    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    What is the point of this thread? Suggs is hurt, so he'll miss at least part of 2012 if not all of it, but Rice is not. Are you implying that you expect Rice to hold out into the season? That would be a huge surprise to me. I think odds are fully in favor of Rice playing all of 2012.

    Are you asking what the long-term implications of Suggs' injury and Rice's contract situation are?




  6. #6

    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    What is the point of this thread? Suggs is hurt, so he'll miss at least part of 2012 if not all of it, but Rice is not. Are you implying that you expect Rice to hold out into the season? That would be a huge surprise to me. I think odds are fully in favor of Rice playing all of 2012.

    Are you asking what the long-term implications of Suggs' injury and Rice's contract situation are?
    No. Im talking about for this upcoming season. Suggs is hurt and Ray Rice might hold out. Which absence will have the bigger impact if they both were out?




  7. #7
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    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    momma -

    It's just confusing because it is highly unlikely that Rice holds out. The new CBA has some pretty serious consequences for holding out IIRC and that was something that the owners really wanted implemented for enforcement.

    Rice doesn't actually have to report or be anywhere until the end of July/beginning of August when the Ravens start their mandatory training camp. Until then, he can do his own thing. Once that mandatory session starts though, I want to say that every day he misses is something like a $35,000 penalty that the Ravens can enforce.
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  8. #8

    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    momma -

    It's just confusing because it is highly unlikely that Rice holds out. The new CBA has some pretty serious consequences for holding out IIRC and that was something that the owners really wanted implemented for enforcement.

    Rice doesn't actually have to report or be anywhere until the end of July/beginning of August when the Ravens start their mandatory training camp. Until then, he can do his own thing. Once that mandatory session starts though, I want to say that every day he misses is something like a $35,000 penalty that the Ravens can enforce.
    It should not be confusing because its a hypothetical question. This is a "what if" question/poll.

    Ray Rice steped up not only to be our best player on offense but also a vocal leader and a team leader. He develop into a leauge wide star. So him sitting out until mandatory training camp starting in late July/ early August and skipping OTA's and other group workouts, voluntary or not, still is not a good thing IMO. Ray Rice is a vocal leader on this offense and with Pierce, Allen, Berry all having no to little experience in the NFL, Ray Rice presence would be greatly beneficiary to the younger players before training camp starts. I know people are already sold on Pierce but i watch more tape on him and he has trouble in pass blocking and blitz pick up. Which is probably the hardest thing a rookie RB can learn in the NFL. IMO if Ray Rice wanted to hold out this season would be the year to do it. Rice is the single most (maybe next to Flacco) important player on our team. He outplayed his contract by far and he wants a long term deal with good numbers. I cant blame him if he did hold out. I wouldnt be mad.




  9. #9
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    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by mommathurgoesthatman View Post
    It should not be confusing because its a hypothetical question. This is a "what if" question/poll.

    Ray Rice steped up not only to be our best player on offense but also a vocal leader and a team leader. He develop into a leauge wide star. So him sitting out until mandatory training camp starting in late July/ early August and skipping OTA's and other group workouts, voluntary or not, still is not a good thing IMO. Ray Rice is a vocal leader on this offense and with Pierce, Allen, Berry all having no to little experience in the NFL, Ray Rice presence would be greatly beneficiary to the younger players before training camp starts. I know people are already sold on Pierce but i watch more tape on him and he has trouble in pass blocking and blitz pick up. Which is probably the hardest thing a rookie RB can learn in the NFL. IMO if Ray Rice wanted to hold out this season would be the year to do it. Rice is the single most (maybe next to Flacco) important player on our team. He outplayed his contract by far and he wants a long term deal with good numbers. I cant blame him if he did hold out. I wouldnt be mad.
    Hey dude, I answered you what my thought was. I was just merely telling you that some people may find your hypothetical question confusing and unlikely/unrealistic because Rice will be a part of the offense whether he wants to be or not. There is no financial leverage to be gained from him holding out. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.


    http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmo...ts-in-the-nfl/
    The league got a win in the new CBA as it pertains to holdouts. In an effort to prevent them, under the new CBA if player under contract fails to report to training camp, he is fined $30,000 per day by his club. Thatís more than double the fine in the prior CBA which was $14,000 per day.
    So, considering Rice only made a few hundred thousand last year, getting fined $30K per day would significantly hurt his bank account more than a lot of other guys.

    http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2011...he-new-nfl-cba
    Now, if a player fails to report to his team a minimum of 30 days before their first regular season game, the entire season will not count towards his service time...

    If they aren't on the roster a month before game 1, they lose the whole season no matter when they report. This just recently went into effect for Chris Johnson of the Titans-he's holding out for a new deal and did not report 30 days before the first game, so he now loses the entire 2011 season for his service time...
    Ravor might be a better person to ask about this, but if he isn't on the roster as reported 30 days and essentially "loses" the 2011 season then I would imagine if that were to be applied to the franchise tag - even though it'd be his 2nd time under the tag - he'd only be paid as if it were the 1st time...which would cost him a few mill as well.

    I agree that Rice sitting out for all of the off-season stuff until August isn't a good thing for him or for the team, but the reality is that even if he were under contract or given a new contract he wouldn't have to report until August anyway. If you want to look at a silver lining in this it is that some of the younger depth guys (Pierce, Double A, Berry, etc) will get more reps and it'll give the coaching staff a better idea of what they have. That could also hurt Rice's chances of getting a long term deal in Baltimore as well because if, say, Double A comes in and just kills it and the coaching staff feel that he can be the feature back in Baltimore, well then Rice's value just went down a little bit and Rice just lost some leverage and is STILL under the franchise tag and able to be franchised again the following year, which means by the time he actually was a free agent he'd be close to 28 years old and lost 2 years of his "prime".
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  10. #10
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    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    momma -

    It's just confusing because it is highly unlikely that Rice holds out. The new CBA has some pretty serious consequences for holding out IIRC and that was something that the owners really wanted implemented for enforcement.

    Rice doesn't actually have to report or be anywhere until the end of July/beginning of August when the Ravens start their mandatory training camp. Until then, he can do his own thing. Once that mandatory session starts though, I want to say that every day he misses is something like a $35,000 penalty that the Ravens can enforce.
    Even though he's technically not under contract until he signs the franchise tag? That seems steep and I can't believe the players agreed to that. More and more it's starting to show that the players were hosed by the new CBA and their "leader".




  11. #11

    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Gotta go with Suggs. When big games came up, he took over. Big games Ray wasn't exactly killing it.




  12. #12
    iggyman555 Guest

    Re: Bigger Impact: No Rice or No Suggs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Gotta go with Suggs. When big games came up, he took over. Big games Ray wasn't exactly killing it.
    suggs didnt do crap in the playoffs last year. but i agree overall suggs has the bigger impact
    Last edited by iggyman555; 05-04-2012 at 04:41 PM.




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