More Seals going after OBY for taking credit on kill

[AirFlacco]

Remember the swifties that sunk Kerry?

More and more Navy Seals are starting to do the same with OBY running ads how
distasteful it is for him to take credit and politicizing the killing of Osama Bin Laden.
See pic at bottom of link.

MOney is coming in from all over the country as more Seals are stepping
forward to run ads and speak up vs the Prez. They deny they're pulling
a swift boat campaign that sunk Kerry and will only hit this one issue but they are
pissed and are getting the message out.

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/0...in-laden-raid/

[Irish Raven]

“We’re looking to [put together] a coalition, to field SEALs and operators that want to come out publicly,” executive director of Veterans for a Strong America, Joel Arends, tells BuzzFeed. “I’ve had a lot of discussions with former SEALs and current SEALs.

I know those who have left service, maybe retired can get involved in whatever they wish

But that article mentions servicemen who are still in service
Are they allowed get involved in lobby groups and campaigns?

I don't know a lot about the US military but I know in our own any serving member cannot get involved in anything political. It doesn't matter which political side they want to take, while they are in service they cannot do it

Of course they can vote, everyone can vote but they cannot get into campaigns unless they leave the service.

Just suprised, that's all

[AirFlacco]

You're right. I wondered about that too.

Current members of the military aren't allowed to speak up vs the president. He's their
commander in chief.

Not sure if that article is entirely correct. It strongly implies current seals and operators
but that can't be. Only retired members.

[wickedsolo]

I know those who have left service, maybe retired can get involved in whatever they wish

But that article mentions servicemen who are still in service
Are they allowed get involved in lobby groups and campaigns?

I don't know a lot about the US military but I know in our own any serving member cannot get involved in anything political. It doesn't matter which political side they want to take, while they are in service they cannot do it

Of course they can vote, everyone can vote but they cannot get into campaigns unless they leave the service.

Just suprised, that's all

Absolutely NOT.

It's a big no-no. You can have your opinions and things of that nature, but things that go against the President is something that you just cannot do if you're still active duty/reservist. You can get into some pretty serious trouble under the UCMJ and actually I believe you could be charged with Article 94 (Mutiny & Sedition).


Funny story about Article 94:

When I was active duty I had a Petty Officer 1st class (E6) talking poorly about me to his subordinates (E3's & E2's) who happened to be my subordinates at the time (I was a 3rd class Petty Officer [E4]) and I caught wind of it. The 1st Class Petty Officer's association at my command at the time was extremely weak in leadership and maturity and this was just one incident. I told this E6 what he can do with himself and how piss poor his leadership skills were. I also included that this is a shining example of how shitty the entire 1st class association was at that command and why not one of the senior enlisted and ward room (officers) take them seriously. This m'effer wrote me up on a violation of UCMJ Article 94 (mutiny & sedition) and tried to have me reduced in rank and put on restriction for 45 days and extra duty for 45 days. This shit went all the way to the Commanding Officer of my base.

Little did they know that I was pre-law in college and know a thing or two about the UCMJ and my rights as an enlisted member of the Navy.

Under this article you can only be charged/found guilty if you "usurp, override, or refuse lawful military authority in concert with others" and "has intent to overthrow lawful civil authority that creates[in concert with any other person(s)] disturbance, revolt, & violence..."

Charges were dropped after I threatened Court Martial & had my fraternity brother from college (O-5 [Lt. Commander] JAG Officer on the phone as my representation).

The next day I had filed a report under Article 107 (False Official Statement...he lied on official reports about what was actually said) and Article 134, sub-section 23 (Fraternization...for him conversing with subordinates about other non-commissioned officers).

He ended up getting a suspended bust (lost rank & priviledges, but still retained pay) for 6 months and his recent Chief's exam was thrown out. Apparently he had made board for Chief prior to that as well.

I'm glad he got busted down and will never make Chief (E7) as a result of this because he was a shitty E6 and would have been an even worse Chief.

[AirFlacco]

Solo - My dad had a sarge similar to that guy in WW2. He cancelled all Christmas leaves.

Soon after that everyone was shipped out overseas and a lot of guys never came back and
they never got to see their families one last time.

My dad was a gunner on a B-17 bomber and was injured shooting down a Nazi fighter
plane. He was in an Army hospital for over a month. When he was better he failed the
eye examine and was grounded, sent home and re-trained as a mechanic.

While he was home that sarge had been busted and now dad was a staff sargeant and
over him. He said he got even for all those guys that died and never saw their familes.

I said what did you do to him. He never told me. He wasn't a Christian til after the
war so whatever he did wasn't pretty.

Do you have any guesses? He told me everything but that.

BTW, his plane was shot down while he was in the hospital. He blamed himself for
the rest of his life. It was never hit while he flew with them.

[wickedsolo]

Solo - My dad had a sarge similar to that guy in WW2. He cancelled all Christmas leaves.

Soon after that everyone was shipped out overseas and a lot of guys never came back and
they never got to see their families one last time.

My dad was a gunner on a B-17 bomber and was injured shooting down a Nazi fighter
plane. He was in an Army hospital for over a month. When he was better he failed the
eye examine and was grounded, sent home and re-trained as a mechanic.

While he was home that sarge had been busted and now dad was a staff sargeant and
over him. He said he got even for all those guys that died and never saw their familes.

I said what did you do to him. He never told me. He wasn't a Christian til after the
war so whatever he did wasn't pretty.

Do you have any guesses? He told me everything but that.

You know WW2 was such a unique circumstance. I get chills whenever I hear or read a story about someone's experiences over there because those old timers never talk(ed) about it.

Both of my wife's grandfathers served. Both in the pac theater. The one passed before he could really tell many stories. He was a Corpsman in the Navy based out of Australia. The other one, however, has started telling a lot of stories, but only really when I'm around because he was in the Navy as well. Prior to me joining, he didn't talk about it much. He pulled out some old photos of him on the sub. He was on the USS Jack. Did about 10-12 S&D duties at Midway & Guam. His sub even escorted the destroyer that picked up Bush Senior when his plane was shot down. He was there during the attack on Pearl Harbor. It's just some really amazing stuff. It's no wonder why we refer to them as the greatest generation that ever lived. He was friends with Admiral Nimitz's boy (they were all from the same neighborhood in New Jersey). One cool story was when they were all docked together and he was cooking up some stuffed cabage that was his mother's recipe (he was first generation American...parents were from Poland/Russia) and Nimitz caught a whiff of it, came down into the sub and grabbed a plate of his stuffed cabage.

I can't speak of what your Pop did to that sergeant who cancelled all those boys' leave, but I know I'd make his life hell for the rest of the time I knew him and I'd make sure he never forgot each one of those boys and their families who never got to see them again. One thing that I find interesting was that their Sergeant cancelled leave. Obviously things were a lot different back then, but I didn't think an NCO could have that kind of authority. Seems to me that would have had to come down from at least their Div-O.

WW2 is one of the reasons why you are authorized pre-deployment leave that doesnt' count against your accrued/earned leave. That happened to a lot of boys.

[JStruds]

Absolutely NOT.

It's a big no-no. You can have your opinions and things of that nature, but things that go against the President is something that you just cannot do if you're still active duty/reservist. You can get into some pretty serious trouble under the UCMJ and actually I believe you could be charged with Article 94 (Mutiny & Sedition).


Funny story about Article 94:

When I was active duty I had a Petty Officer 1st class (E6) talking poorly about me to his subordinates (E3's & E2's) who happened to be my subordinates at the time (I was a 3rd class Petty Officer [E4]) and I caught wind of it. The 1st Class Petty Officer's association at my command at the time was extremely weak in leadership and maturity and this was just one incident. I told this E6 what he can do with himself and how piss poor his leadership skills were. I also included that this is a shining example of how shitty the entire 1st class association was at that command and why not one of the senior enlisted and ward room (officers) take them seriously. This m'effer wrote me up on a violation of UCMJ Article 94 (mutiny & sedition) and tried to have me reduced in rank and put on restriction for 45 days and extra duty for 45 days. This shit went all the way to the Commanding Officer of my base.

Little did they know that I was pre-law in college and know a thing or two about the UCMJ and my rights as an enlisted member of the Navy.

Under this article you can only be charged/found guilty if you "usurp, override, or refuse lawful military authority in concert with others" and "has intent to overthrow lawful civil authority that creates[in concert with any other person(s)] disturbance, revolt, & violence..."

Charges were dropped after I threatened Court Martial & had my fraternity brother from college (O-5 [Lt. Commander] JAG Officer on the phone as my representation).

The next day I had filed a report under Article 107 (False Official Statement...he lied on official reports about what was actually said) and Article 134, sub-section 23 (Fraternization...for him conversing with subordinates about other non-commissioned officers).

He ended up getting a suspended bust (lost rank & priviledges, but still retained pay) for 6 months and his recent Chief's exam was thrown out. Apparently he had made board for Chief prior to that as well.

I'm glad he got busted down and will never make Chief (E7) as a result of this because he was a shitty E6 and would have been an even worse Chief.

The majority of the NCO Corps knows better than to act like your PO1. Most also know a counsleing statement or at worst an Article 15/Captain's Mast would be more appropriate for (percieved) backtalk. It's a shame you experienced such bad leadership during your time in service. At least you kept one from advancing further.

PS You made a typo: An O-5 is a Commander (Navy and CG) and a Lt. Colonel for the rest of us.

[wickedsolo]

The majority of the NCO Corps knows better than to act like your PO1. Most also know a counsleing statement or at worst an Article 15/Captain's Mast would be more appropriate for (percieved) backtalk. It's a shame you experienced such bad leadership during your time in service. At least you kept one from advancing further.

PS You made a typo: An O-5 is a Commander (Navy and CG) and a Lt. Colonel for the rest of us.

I meant Lt. Colonel. I was Navy, but in college we were Army ROTC. He's a Lt. Colonel in the Army.

The leadership at some of the commands I was at was really great, but at my last command it was just really lacking. It's no big deal. I enlisted when I was 25/26 years old, so I wasn't exactly a young guy. Their lack of leadership was a major reason why my Departmental Senior Enlisted Advisor (Senior Chief [E8]) made me the departmental LCPO as an E5 over 2 E6's. They didn't like it one bit and I can understand why, but frankly they had zero leadership and I was glad to take on the responsibility.

[AirFlacco]

I had a sarge like that at APG as a civilian. I was Riffed or laid off and had
one foot out the door when I was told to report to a new building on
Monday. Back then senior civil servant employees had bumping rights and
I actually bumped someone out of the job.

Actually, the person wasn't on the job yet. She had just been hired and was
about to give her boss the 2-week notice when they had to call her and
say she didn't have a job.

It was a military office with only 2 civilians. There was the commander
and 4 sargeants. The First Sargeant was the meanest sarge in the Army
and perhaps the toughest. Even the officers were afraid of him. He
had 32 registered kills in Vietnam. His commander did whatever he
recommended so they went to the Commanding General to stop me from
coming. He said you will take him or else.

So they said we'll just make it so difficult he can't say. He stood over
me while I worked. He put his foot on my chair. He spilled coffee on
documents I typed as I proofed them. I learned not to put any paper work on my desk. I proofed everything before printing and then put them in the
Commander's in basket for signature. He wouldn't mess with it there.

The Commander fell in love with my work. We worked with allied officers
from all over the world training them on our newest tanks. I in- and out-processed them, found housing for them, found insurance for them.

They often asked me to make view graphs for their lesson plans. I visited
students in Egypt and Turkey when they returned.

Anyway the sarge still hated me and the only way to get him to stop
harrassing was to fight him. I never snitched on anyone. I said I'll fight
you anywhere any time off post in the dark alley of your choice but you
will not push me around anymore.

So one weekend we met on a vacant lot. All the sarges were there.
The guy mauled me but never knocked me down and I got some good
haymakers in myself. We kept banging each other until we couldn't stand
up anymore and that ended it.

He respected me more than anyone and we became best friends.

On Monday we were in the office and the Capt came in and saw my face
and said what the hell happened to you. I said I fell down. He said sure you did.

Then he saw the sarge's face and started to say what.., then he looked back at my face and screamed, I don't want to know.Don't tell me what happened. I don't want to know as he slammed his door.

We just sat there and laughed.

Mista T has seen first hand what happens on road trips when certain fans get into it with
me-lol. He might not back me up now since I'm on the site's shit list but he knows.
Just ask him what happened in Denver. It's his favorite story. Don't ask him about Jacksonville. A major embarrassment-lol. The president of Nest 1 asked if that JAX story was true. I said do you know about that? He said everyone knows about that man. You gotta learn not to take things so seriously. True but ILMAO.

Last night at the water hole a waitress walked by carrying a tray of drinks and I stuck
my foot out like I was going to trip her. She said I'll kick your ass Trap. I said you
probably could. My lungs are so bad anyone could. Even a girl-lol.

My doc said I have the worse lungs in his office. My glory days are over.

[Galen Sevinne]

This is a joke. Hotair can write about anything it wants to and use the words like "plans to gather Navy SEALs and Special Forces operators" and “We’re looking to [put together] a coalition". These guys like this guy would be foolish.

I think I will plan to get together 100,000 miltary guys who will support Obama and while I'm looking to get them together publish a press release suggesting there are millions more that love Obama.

[AirFlacco]

LOL - A 100,000? I'm sure you can. They're all union guys like my uncle. He had
to vote for whomever he was ordered to.

Even Dole got 80% of the military vote when Clinton slaughtered him.
The Military voted vs Kerry. They traditionally vote GOP.

Why do you think Gore refused to count all those absentee ballots during
the Florida recount vote after he said every vote counts? That's because
GOP always gets the military vote. Just ask Kerry. The Swifties kept him
from getting elected just like the Seals will keep OBY from getting it.

You always miss the point when you mis-represent the facts. The point is they
will get enough Seals to sink OBY. It doesn't matter how many you can find. They
will still sink him. They're pissed as hell for him taking all the credit.

This is blowing up in OBYs face big time.


SOLO - Here's a Navy story from my uncle - the one mentioned above in
the union. He was a SEA BEE in WW2 and was on a transport ship to
Guam. The ship was being attacked by a sub and the capt said over
the PA that he was going to out-run him.

They did. Can you believe a transport ship out-ran a sub? Unbelieveable.
He was down in the hull of the ship holding on to a rail with both hands
waiting to get blown up. Then he stepped off on Guam and got shot
at.

He said planes came over dropping bombs on him while he was driving a bull dozer
building an air strip. He always jumped off the bull dozer and into a fox hole.