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  1. #85

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced



    My only complaints about today's announcement are:

    - Vilma should have been banned for life

    - the other 25 or so Saints players who were involved to a lesser extent should all have at least a wrist slap, or declared to be fully exonerated.
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  2. #86

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    The issue is: Is it okay to try to knock a guy out of the game with a really hard but legal hit? If the answer is yes (and I think it is, or at least up until now has been the accepted answer), then I think Vilma's penalty is way overboard.

    Of course, I may have missed some testimony or evidence where Vilma mentioned someone's knees or condoned illegal hits; if so, then I think his penalty is justified (at least in terms of trying to make an example out of this ordeal to prevent it from ever happening again).
    Last edited by Haloti92; 05-02-2012 at 08:01 PM. Reason: I am German




  3. #87

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    The issue is: Is it okay to try to knock a guy out of the game with a really hard but legal hit? If the answer is yes (and I think it is, or at least up until now has been the accepted answer), then I think Wilma's penalty is way overboard.

    Of course, I may have missed some testimony or evidence where Wilma mentioned someone's knees or condoned illegal hits; if so, then I think his penalty is justified (at least in terms of trying to make an example out of this ordeal to prevent it from ever happening again).
    Yeah, well, if you think that's the issue (and that's the guy's name) I can see how you can arrive at that conclusion. Like blah3, you can change the facts to match the narrative.

    What is it with this thread?

    /done with it
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  4. #88

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by festivus View Post
    Yeah, well, if you think that's the issue (and that's the guy's name) I can see how you can arrive at that conclusion. Like blah3, you can change the facts to match the narrative.

    What is it with this thread?

    /done with it
    Of course it is the main issue regarding Vilma. How about you answer the question. Is it acceptable to attempt to knock a guy out with a legal hit? Yes or no?

    And how does mistyping his name mean what I said is less important? Or were you being cute?

    What "facts" am I changing by asking that question?

    What is it with this thread, indeed? Some people get a little too sensitive when it comes to differing opinions/points. That is for sure.




  5. #89
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    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    The issue is: Is it okay to try to knock a guy out of the game with a really hard but legal hit? If the answer is yes (and I think it is, or at least up until now has been the accepted answer), then I think Vilma's penalty is way overboard.

    Of course, I may have missed some testimony or evidence where Vilma mentioned someone's knees or condoned illegal hits; if so, then I think his penalty is justified (at least in terms of trying to make an example out of this ordeal to prevent it from ever happening again).
    Except that's not why they were suspended.

    They were suspended for colluding to injure players, created a player pool, was told to stop by the league, lied about stopping and got caught.
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  6. #90

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Except that's not why they were suspended.

    They were suspended for colluding to injure players, created a player pool, was told to stop by the league, lied about stopping and got caught.
    I am talking about the player, not the coaches.

    I am aware the pool is against the rules. I would say that if the pool awarded $10k for touchdowns (also against the rules) there is no way the player gets a year suspension. Which leaves your first claim, which is the one in doubt. And which is why my question is important.

    Is it acceptable to try to knock a player out of the game with a legal hit? Yes or no?




  7. #91
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    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I am talking about the player, not the coaches.

    I am aware the pool is against the rules. I would say that if the pool awarded $10k for touchdowns (laos against the rules) there is no way the player gets a year suspension. Which leaves your first claim, which is the one in doubt. And which is why my question is important.
    You're manufacturing why the players were suspended. The players were suspended for everything I mentioned above:

    “In assessing player discipline,” Commissioner Goodell said, “I focused on players who were in leadership positions at the Saints; contributed a particularly large sum of money toward the program; specifically contributed to a bounty on an opposing player; demonstrated a clear intent to participate in a program that potentially injured opposing players; sought rewards for doing so; and/or obstructed the 2010 investigation.”


    Goodell would go on to say in that same statement that each of the players suspended met at least one of those four criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    Is it acceptable to try to knock a player out of the game with a legal hit? Yes or no?
    In of itself, I'd say yes, although you'd most likely run afoul of the new rules regarding player safety and concussion awareness. Except that's not what they were doing.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  8. #92

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Only the bolded point is remotely possible to warrant a year suspension in my view, and I have yet to hear any evidence about Vilma engaging in a cover-up. But if he did then I guess the suspension should be serious; I still think 1 year is too much, then again I don't know what he did (in terms of obstructing).

    Being a leader on the team, having a pool, and contributing an arbitrarily defined "large amount" are all extremely minor things considering they all would apply to a pool for touchdowns and interceptions, etc.

    As for what "they" were doing, who is the "they" you are talking about? I am fully on board with Payton and Williams suspensions because they were in charge, and they received the league warning. As for Vilma, I have yet to see any claim that he did anything other than offer money for legally knocking a guy out of the game. If he condoned illegal hits and/or obstructed the investigation then I would have less of a problem with the 1-year penalty.




  9. #93
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    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    The evidence was signed off on by a former United States Attorney, who conducted an independent review and gave her thumbs up.

    That, and Williams already confessed.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #94

    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    The evidence was signed off on by a former United States Attorney, who conducted an independent review and gave her thumbs up.

    That, and Williams already confessed.

    We are talking about Vilma, not Williams, at least I am. I already mentioned Williams deserves what he got.




  11. #95
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    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    We are talking about Vilma, not Williams, at least I am. I already mentioned Williams deserves what he got.
    So am I.

    The United States Attorney signed off on the entire investigation -- coaches AND players.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #96
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    Re: Saints Player Suspensions Announced

    This thread just goes around and around in circles.
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