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Thread: How did we do?

  1. #301

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    Good article here. Pretty much sums up my issues with the draft.

    http://www.baltimoreravens.com/News/...sing_Game.aspx
    Is the Raven's passing attack anemic because of personnel or because of coaching, scheme and philosphy? I lean more towards the latter.





  2. #302
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    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Is the Raven's passing attack anemic because of personnel or because of coaching, scheme and philosphy? I lean more towards the latter.
    This. I have always contended that you could bring in Jerry Rice and Randy Moss in their primes and this offense would not drastically change. I believe the reason Cam was kept around because his philosophy aligns with organizational goal of controlling the clock, establishing the run to set up the pass and let the defense hold the lead in the fourth quarter to win games. They don't care about style points.





  3. #303

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    This. I have always contended that you could bring in Jerry Rice and Randy Moss in their primes and this offense would not drastically change. I believe the reason Cam was kept around because his philosophy aligns with organizational goal of controlling the clock, establishing the run to set up the pass and let the defense hold the lead in the fourth quarter to win games. They don't care about style points.
    And you would be right......tire out the defense by controlling the ball, play for a 4 quarter game.
    Many teams are too mentally weak to play that kind of game.
    Way Down South in New Orleans





  4. #304

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Is the Raven's passing attack anemic because of personnel or because of coaching, scheme and philosphy? I lean more towards the latter.
    Could be a combo of both but the right personnel would highlight where the problem truly lies.





  5. #305
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    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    I acknowledge you are a decent/ rational guy. So let's find some common ground. Folks are upset about the word panic. Can we agree that they were ANTSY and not as "happy" as they normally are post draft?
    Okay, fair enough - although I question your judgement in the first sentence. I think the Ravens didn't have things fall into their laps as easily as some other past drafts, and it forced them to manuever and make adjustments as they went. If thats antsy, so be it, but it doesn't mean they drafted poorly. I still think they stayed true to their board, so in that aspect the draft went like all the other ones. Picking once every 30+ picks is going to mean that you aren't going to get every guy on the list. Sometimes choices had to be made. If one of them was Osemele or Randle, I think they made the right choice. Others would disagree and time will tell if it was the right choice. It's not as if they took a QB in the 2nd round.

    They lost a starting OLB and LG, which punched holes in their 'near Super Bowl' team from last year. Of course they had to find replacements, and I tend to believe them when they say that Upshaw and Osemele were the highest guys on their board at those points. Those guys were 1st and 2nd round rated by most people. Would I have liked them to land Sanu, Floyd, Jeffrey, etc? Sure, but they can only get one guy at a time. Probably, by the time they were picking, no WR was all that high on their board, or at least not as high as they guy they chose. I think they see development in Reed and Doss that the average fan can't see because we don't have access to practices. Not every pick is expected to be a home run and an immediate contributor. Some of the guys who will step up and play a bigger role this year were drafted last year and the year before. Fans are way too impatient.





  6. #306

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by alien bird View Post
    Wrong. I'm simply amazed that you choose to put a particular spin on what they are saying just to suit your needs and justify your frustration with the draft. You aren't repeating the message, you are interpreting it poorly. For them to say the draft went differently than other ones, that they were getting antsy as players they liked went off the board, and that they had to make adjustments on the fly does not equate to panicking and having a bad draft - although you seem to think it does.

    So, they watched players they liked go off the board, so they got antsy? Big whoop. All that means is that they decided they needed to make a move to be sure to get the guys they wanted (like Pierce in the 3rd and Gradkowski in the 4th). That doesn't mean they panicked. It means the draft wasn't going as they expected and they realized those guys wouldn't be there in later rounds. They made adjustments - adjustments for which they said they were prepared. You like leaving that part out of the message.

    You interpret their message as "we panicked and had a bad draft". I don't think that's what they are saying at all, but go ahead and continue to think whatever you want. I think they are saying, "Things went differently in this draft and we had to make adjustments we normally wouldn't have to make, based on what other teams were doing and where we were drafting, but we were prepared to do that and get players we had highly ranked on our board."

    It may not have been the most sexy draft ever, and it may be they didn't get all the players they wanted (who ever does), but it doesn't mean they failed. They had 8 picks, and over 200 players were chosen. They aren't going to get everyone they want. Ever. I'm not a blind faithful. I realize they make errors and bad choices (David Pittman, Yamon Figurs, etc.). They also pick guys I wouldn't pick. But guess what? They spend way more time preparing and analyzing players than any one on this board, so I'm more likely to trust their judgement over someone pissed off because they traded up to grab a running back they liked in the 3rd round and it cost them the 164th pick of the draft.
    :word

    Well said.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap





  7. #307

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    You're confused because you want to be confused. THEY said this draft went like no other. THEY said they never seen things go the way it was going. THEY said they started getting "antsy" because their players/board was getting wiped out.

    So this whole debate is becoming more about the messenger. Because I'm just repeating the message THEY HAVE BEEN GIVING YOU SINCE SATURDAY. So when THEY say things were totally different, and those that worship say things were the same and handled the same....it's clear whose dealing with reality and not some folklore of perfection.
    RM, with all due respect, that is your interpretation of what they said. It is not FACT, like you seem to want to project it. What they said is certainly open to interpretation. You have yours and others obviously have their own. I think where the problem lies is that many have objected to your interpretation that they panicked and your belief, expressed as a certainty (as in the above quote), that their words, in fact, support that they panicked.

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    Another points out it's all about interpretation. That's true. I gave my interpretation days ago. It was attacked/challenged. That's what real boards do. Debate. Not have homers sit around pat each other on the backs, form clicks, and tell each other how real fans don't questioned Ozzie. Tear down opposing to boost up our players. The Hightower back and forth is laughable. Pure homer-ism.
    Well, you've also been doing your fair share of "labeling" as well, and it's come to the point that your broad brush application now makes anyone who disagrees with you, a "blind homer".
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap





  8. #308
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    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    Well, you've also been doing your fair share of "labeling" as well, and it's come to the point that your broad brush application now makes anyone who disagrees with you, a "blind homer".
    This is pretty much how he was regarding Joe Flacco during the 2010/2011 season.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  9. #309

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by B-more Ravor View Post
    RM, with all due respect, that is your interpretation of what they said. It is not FACT, like you seem to want to project it. What they said is certainly open to interpretation. You have yours and others obviously have their own. I think where the problem lies is that many have objected to your interpretation that they panicked and your belief, expressed as a certainty (as in the above quote), that their words, in fact, support that they panicked.



    Well, you've also been doing your fair share of "labeling" as well, and it's come to the point that your broad brush application now makes anyone who disagrees with you, a "blind homer".
    I. Since many were splitting hairs between panic and antsy (there 's very little space between the 2 IMO) I conceded to go with antsy to squash the back and forth prior to your reply.

    2. You accuse me of using a broad brush when yourself is being broad about my posts. I never said everyone that disagreed with me was homer. I never associated that term to you...GOTA...DIRT...ETC. I have had disagreement with all these folks and never implied they were homers. But IMO there are some this label fits. They have bought into the notion that everything Ozzie says is right and everything he touches is golden. That it is impossible for the Ravens to have a bad draft is the mind set for some because it's Ozzie and it's their home team. So yes after being called a troll and to hear the crazy notion that I want the Ravens to fail because I have a different opinion, I think it fair and accurate to lable some huggers and homers. I keep it broad not to specifically insult anyone.

    I wish that some would speak up when the term troll is used so liberally by some. Especially when it's based off a disagreement.





  10. #310
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    Re: How did we do?

    Way i look at it....they filled 3 immediate needs with their first 3 picks (OLB, LG, #2 RB). did they stray a little bit from their usual BPA strategy and put more of an emphases on team needs? Or did they get really lucky and have their first 3 BPA picks land at positions of great need? Time will tell...im excited about this draft and certainly think our FO has earned the benefit of doubt.





  11. #311

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    Way i look at it....they filled 3 immediate needs with their first 3 picks (OLB, LG, #2 RB). did they stray a little bit from their usual BPA strategy and put more of an emphases on team needs? Or did they get really lucky and have their first 3 BPA picks land at positions of great need? Time will tell...im excited about this draft and certainly think our FO has earned the benefit of doubt.
    :word





  12. #312

    Re: How did we do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    I. Since many were splitting hairs between panic and antsy (there 's very little space between the 2 IMO) I conceded to go with antsy to squash the back and forth prior to your reply.
    I think that's where a lot of the disagreement really IS coming from - I'm guessing that most would disagree that there's little space between them. IMO, "antsy" is "a little nervous", whereas "panicking" is well, "panicking" - being a lot nervous and then doing something stupid because of it.

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I see nothing in what was said to indicate that the Ravens are admitting that they blew the draft or anything like that, just that they needed to take a somewhat different approach because this year, for some reason, other team's draft boards looked much more like the Ravens draft board than in the past. So, they simply had to go further down their list than they usually do - and really wanted to.

    2. You accuse me of using a broad brush when yourself is being broad about my posts. I never said everyone that disagreed with me was homer. I never associated that term to you...GOTA...DIRT...ETC. I have had disagreement with all these folks and never implied they were homers. But IMO there are some this label fits. They have bought into the notion that everything Ozzie says is right and everything he touches is golden. That it is impossible for the Ravens to have a bad draft is the mind set for some because it's Ozzie and it's their home team. So yes after being called a troll and to hear the crazy notion that I want the Ravens to fail because I have a different opinion, I think it fair and accurate to lable some huggers and homers. I keep it broad not to specifically insult anyone.
    Fair enough. I thought your comments were aimed more broadly, but I was apparently mistaken.

    I wish that some would speak up when the term troll is used so liberally by some. Especially when it's based off a disagreement.
    Touche. You are certainly correct on that note.
    “Talk's cheap - let’s go play.” - #19, Johnny Unitas

    Follow me on Twitter @ravenssalarycap





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