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  1. #16
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th



    That's right but we actually didn't get into the space race until the Ruskies sent Sputnik up.
    Man, that blew everyone's minds. I was a kid and remember what the hell. How did they
    do that.

    You mentioned Teddy Roosevelt. What a prick. Talk about 3 terms, after completing two terms and getting his pal Taft in as Prez who rubber stamped all his programs including the worse legislation ever passed - income tax. But Teddy was all for it and actually wanted it passed while he was Pres. In fact, federal income taxes goes back to Lincoln who wanted them to pay for the civil war debt. Only the rich would pay taxes but it was the worse thing a prez ever signed.

    Then Teddy got pissed at Taft and actually ran a third time vs him splitting the GOP which allowed Woodrow Wilson to win and establish the Federal Reserve Bank. The income tax was
    needed for extra revenue of course. All those years of high tarriffs and isolationism the
    GOPs imposed created the need for more revenue. When the US restricted imports,
    then our exports were cut abroad. They made things more expensive here. That's why
    we need free trade.

    The GOPs were very progressive in 1913 just as they are now with their liberal establishent
    but Teddy tried to get a tax bill before 1913. Of course the DEMs were more than willing to accommodate them and when Wilson was elected he established the IRS to collect the revenue.

    Only people making over $3,000 pr yr paid taxes then so the rich were paying their fair
    share-lol. My grand fathers did not make $3,000 pr yr in 1913. They paid no income taxes,
    same with my dad, until WW2 came along. Nobody complained because we were fighting
    to stay alive but people thought things would go back to before. It never did.

    Congress passed the 16th Amendment and started a spending spree that has gone out of
    control with this president.

    OBAMA is the worse creating more debt than all the guys put together-lol.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-26-2012 at 12:43 PM.




  2. #17
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    One last interesting point on Teddy. He started a new party and called it the Bull Moose Party.
    It got its name after he was shot. He was giving one of his famous long winded speeches that lasted over an hour.

    Then he was shot and someone said
    he stood there after getting shot like a bull moose so the name stuck.

    Here's an x-ray of the bullet hole in his chest-lol.

    http://retina.smithsonianmag.com/pos...roosevelt-shot


    BTW, after Taft lost the election, Harding appointed him to the supreme court and he became chief justice. It was the job he always wanted. He did Teddy a favor by running
    as his VP and then Pres to rubber stamp his programs.

    It was the greatest comeback after a presidential defeat in history.

    Taft was so fat he actually got stuck in the White House bath tub. It took 5 guys to pull
    him out and they got a bigger tub. Like his father before him and the Bush's, Taft was
    a member of the Skulls and Bones at Harvard. His famous relative also got the famous
    Taft Hartley act signed.

    That's at least 3 known presidents and 1 SC justice and 1 congressman from the Skulls-lol.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-26-2012 at 12:59 PM.




  3. #18
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    I just watched that movie the other week. Haha.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
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  4. #19
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Yea, at the end the movie says there are at least 5 known presidents and several SC justices
    and a lot of congressmen are from the Skulls. Cool movie to see if anyone missed it.

    Speaking of the Skulls, they have real skulls in their trophy case. They are Geronomo's
    remains-lol. Bush's father, Prescott Bush was in the Army during WW1 and was stationed
    at Ft Sill, OK where Geronomo was buried. So pops got some pals and dug the remains
    up and sent his skull and bones back to their club house at Yale.

    There have been many articles interviewing people who swear they saw the bones in
    their trophy case-lol.

    Geronomo's grand son sued W Bush and Yale to get the bones back. They believe the
    bones are needed to find the trail to the next life. If they're dug up, they will never reach
    it so his descendants are blowing their mind over the prank.

    Prescott Bush worked for Rockerfeller as an aid and Rockerfeller helped him buy his first
    company - one that made drills and tools. Most of the oil wells out west use drills owned
    by H Bush today. He was sent out there to watch over the business.

    Barbara Bush's father was the banker who watched Rockerfeller's money. Her marriage
    to H was arranged. When she got engaged she told her friends she would be first
    lady.

    They also owned Zepata. That company was used to launder the money by the CIA to
    finance the Bay of Pigs operation. As a result of that H Bush later became its director.
    The company was sold to Malcolm Glazer who owns the Bucs and tried to bring a team
    here.


    HEY SOLO - I have a lost of useless info stored up there don't I? I always in trivia pursuit-lol.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-26-2012 at 02:05 PM.




  5. #20
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    I think the Geronimo bones thing is an urban legend. I don't know for sure and I guess we'll never know haha.


    Part of my reasoning for liking Teddy was because he was the one who really put the Navy on the map and took it from a fledgling couple of ships and turned it into an actual war-capable fleet. Ever heard of The Great White Fleet? He had a bunch of battleships and destroyers painted white and then they sailed around the world porting in multiple countries so the rest of the world could see how advanced the American Navy was.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  6. #21

    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    No doubt both Lincoln & FDR exercised federal govt. authority beyond what any of either's predecessors could have imagined. But not for self-aggrandizement or evil ends - rather to address crises that were spinning out of control and could not be addressed by the then contemporary models of govt. To me, that's what makes both great. To rail against the New Deal in 2012 is easy. To rail against it in the 1930s was to assign multitudes of Americans to suffering that was not of their own causing and of which they could do little themselves to alleviate. At least something like the WPA or CCC asked people to work for their govt. aid (and most were damn happy to do so) and left us w/ useful infrastructural benefits. Don't bitch at FDR for the continuance of social welfare programs and regulatory behavior. There have been how many Congresses since his death that have elected not only to not dismantle what was set in motion, but have expanded it? Maybe that has something to do w/ an electorate that won't vote their own benefits away (though they complain loudly about all the other "chiselers" & their benefits). There was much to like about the New Deal's legacy in my book. Glass-Steagall Act anyone? If it hadn't been repealed, we might not have had to bail out those Too Big To Fail a-holes.

    Lincoln a tyrant? Well, perhaps technicallly yes, when one looks at the suspension of habeas corpus, etc. But I can't help but view people who call Lincoln a tyrant as people who favor secession, which was in the long run a bad idea in and of itself, even before one gets to why the Confederacy wanted "states rights." As I asked my high school history students for 20 years, "States' rights to do what?"? Slavery was America's original sin. Secession was a desperate effort to perpetuate slavery. Lincoln led an effort to put down the rebellion/secession. That's a good thing. End of story. If you disagree w/ the gist of that, may the Lord have mercy on your soul.




  7. #22
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Oh yea, Teddy was a tough son of a bitch. He built the Panama Canal after the French failed, put the military on the map with those ships and paraded them around the world. He said walk quietly but carry a big stick.

    I'm just saying he was a prick for splitting the
    GOP for a 3rd term when no one else has had one like NC posted above and for trying to
    get federal income tax passed when he was Pres.


    BTW, the $10M the govt paid Panama for the canal rights was given to JP Morgan's bank to pay. Rockefeller bought the bank when Morgan died. All in a family ya know.

    No urban legend. The grand son sued to get the bones back. Over 20 decendents have
    filed the suit and even OBY has been sued because the grave is on federal land and
    Ramsey Clark of LBJs administration is their atty.

    Urban legend has it that members of the club have to kiss the skull.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11329
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-26-2012 at 04:20 PM.




  8. #23
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    No doubt both Lincoln & FDR exercised federal govt. authority beyond what any of either's predecessors could have imagined. But not for self-aggrandizement or evil ends - rather to address crises that were spinning out of control and could not be addressed by the then contemporary models of govt.

    True about why for Lincoln not FDR. Someone just wrote a book about FDR called TRAITOR TO HIS CLASS. He actually destroyed companies owned by friends he grew up with and members in his church by putting too many regulations on them that strangled them just like OBY is doing to the coal industry right now. FDR created the well fare class and socialism as we know it until OBY came along to take it even further. None of it was good.


    To me, that's what makes both great. To rail against the New Deal in 2012 is easy. To rail against it in the 1930s was to assign multitudes of Americans to suffering that was not of their own causing and of which they could do little themselves to alleviate. At least something like the WPA or CCC asked people to work for their govt. aid (and most were damn happy to do so) and left us w/ useful infrastructural benefits. Don't bitch at FDR for the continuance of social welfare programs and regulatory behavior. There have been how many Congresses since his death that have elected not only to not dismantle what was set in motion, but have expanded it? Maybe that has something to do w/ an electorate that won't vote their own benefits away (though they complain loudly about all the other "chiselers" & their benefits). There was much to like about the New Deal's legacy in my book. Glass-Steagall Act anyone? If it hadn't been repealed, we might not have had to bail out those Too Big To Fail a-holes.

    Well, my grand father and dad sure bitched about FDR and socialism. It didn't do a
    damn thing for them. My dad was a child of the depression and he knew what it's like to
    go to bed hungry. They were poor.


    In fact, in 1938 the DEMs were voted out of congress during the mid-terms just like in the 2010 mid-terms. People were sick of the new deal. Unemployment went up from 10% in 1930 to 25% in 37 and we're talking about all men. Most women didn't work then. There was 100,000,000 in the country then. My grandfather and dad sure complained about FDR. WW2 saved his ass. That brought us out of the economy but the depression isn't officially over til 1955, 10 years after FDRs death. He was a great motivator during the war but he gave all of Eastern Europe to Stalin.




    Lincoln a tyrant? Well, perhaps technicallly yes, when one looks at the suspension of habeas corpus, etc. But I can't help but view people who call Lincoln a tyrant as people who favor secession, which was in the long run a bad idea in and of itself, even before one gets to why the Confederacy wanted "states rights." As I asked my high school history students for 20 years, "States' rights to do what?"? Slavery was America's original sin. Secession was a desperate effort to perpetuate slavery. Lincoln led an effort to put down the rebellion/secession. That's a good thing. End of story. If you disagree w/ the gist of that, may the Lord have mercy on your soul.
    I think we all agree with you. Lincoln had a friend in Springfield a law partner named Joshua Speed who was also his lover. Speed broke off and returned to his home and said he was very concerned about Lincoln's mental state. Speed's family also owned a plantation in the south and they both visited it.

    That's when Lincoln saw slavery up close for the first time and how cruel it was and he became an abolitionist but Lincoln was also a racist at the same time. he wanted to send
    the slaves back to Africa and many did go back but he also made statements about them
    being a lower class.

    Black historians don't like him. I listened to a black preacher on the radio who said we
    dont even celebrate the Emancipation Proclamation. That didn't do anything for anyone
    down here. The war raged on 2 more years.

    We celebrate our freedom the day union troops came down here and kicked the red necks
    out-lol.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-26-2012 at 05:03 PM.




  9. #24
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I just watched that movie the other week. Haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Yea, at the end the movie says there are at least 5 known presidents and several SC justices
    and a lot of congressmen are from the Skulls. Cool movie to see if anyone missed it.
    I may be blind but I can't find the name of the film that you're talking about
    Maybe it got edited out

    What's the name of the film, sounds interesting

    Bush's father, Prescott Bush was in the Army during WW1 and was stationed
    at Ft Sill, OK where Geronomo was buried. So pops got some pals and dug the remains
    up
    Down with this sort of thing




  10. #25
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Here you go Irish. Here's the movie. It's great. There's 2 sequels. It was filmed in
    Toronto but is about the club at Yale.

    I think you can buy it on Amazon.com.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skulls_(film)




  11. #26
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker: M&T Sec 527 View Post
    No doubt both Lincoln & FDR exercised federal govt. authority beyond what any of either's predecessors could have imagined. But not for self-aggrandizement or evil ends - rather to address crises that were spinning out of control and could not be addressed by the then contemporary models of govt. To me, that's what makes both great. To rail against the New Deal in 2012 is easy. To rail against it in the 1930s was to assign multitudes of Americans to suffering that was not of their own causing and of which they could do little themselves to alleviate. At least something like the WPA or CCC asked people to work for their govt. aid (and most were damn happy to do so) and left us w/ useful infrastructural benefits. Don't bitch at FDR for the continuance of social welfare programs and regulatory behavior. There have been how many Congresses since his death that have elected not only to not dismantle what was set in motion, but have expanded it? Maybe that has something to do w/ an electorate that won't vote their own benefits away (though they complain loudly about all the other "chiselers" & their benefits). There was much to like about the New Deal's legacy in my book. Glass-Steagall Act anyone? If it hadn't been repealed, we might not have had to bail out those Too Big To Fail a-holes.

    Lincoln a tyrant? Well, perhaps technicallly yes, when one looks at the suspension of habeas corpus, etc. But I can't help but view people who call Lincoln a tyrant as people who favor secession, which was in the long run a bad idea in and of itself, even before one gets to why the Confederacy wanted "states rights." As I asked my high school history students for 20 years, "States' rights to do what?"? Slavery was America's original sin. Secession was a desperate effort to perpetuate slavery. Lincoln led an effort to put down the rebellion/secession. That's a good thing. End of story. If you disagree w/ the gist of that, may the Lord have mercy on your soul.
    Lincoln didn't declare war to end slavery. He declared war in order to keep the Union together, by force if necessary. He stated that multiple times. He even stated at his inaugural address that he would support legislation preventing congress from interfering with slavery in the states where it existed because he was trying to keep the union together and keep a strong centralized government. The funny thing is it would have actually been the 13th amendment. Another interesting point is that the money Lincoln spent on the war could have bought the freedom of every southern slave at the time and given them land.

    Lincoln was very racist and in a debate in 1858 against Stephen A. Douglas, Lincoln claimed that there was a physical and mental difference between blacks and whites and that is why that there would never be equality between the two races.

    There were several prominent southerners who opposed slavery and were in favor of emancipation. Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and James Thornwell (prominent religious & political figure) all publicly stated that slavery was a moral and political evil. In fact, Thornwell had even been in discussion with other southern politicians about devising a plan for emancipation before the actual war had broken out.

    So, while slavery was an issue, it was not THE overall issue for the south to secede. Lincoln was moving the union to a centralized and supreme government and the southern states didn't want that and socially and politically disagreed with having a strong centralized federal government.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  12. #27
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Here you go Irish. Here's the movie. It's great. There's 2 sequels. It was filmed in
    Toronto but is about the club at Yale.

    I think you can buy it on Amazon.com.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skulls_(film)
    Cool, thanks, just downloaded it

    Have two hours before the draft, going to watch it now

    I heard about Skull and Bones before back during the Kerry-Bush and the media said both were members.
    Don't know anything else about it realy




  13. #28
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    I always admired Lee despite his treason. He was the best officer the country ever produced and the most loved General ever. He was an honorable man but he didn't free
    the slaves like Wash did. In fact, when he marched to Gettysburgh and went thru York
    they found some freed slaves, some that had fled the south and made it. The army
    tied them up and sent them back to the south. Lee had to know about it.

    The irony of Gettysburgh and perhaps the entire war was that the final battle at
    Gettysburgh at Seminary Ridge ended on a farm owned by a freed slave. They
    breached the line at the ridge and got over it until reinforcements arrived and pushed
    them back.

    General Armistead who's uncle was the hero and commander of Ft McHenry went
    futher than anyone in that attack until he fell. That's called the South's high water
    mark, the closest they came to winning the war.

    It's kind of funny. My family fought for Lee who refused to fire on his home in Virginia but
    my ancestors didnt mind it. They were part of thousands of Marylanders that joined Lee's
    army. They were at Antietam and had they won they would have
    devoured the entire state including their own homes. Lee wouldn't fire on his home but
    my family would have. I'm convinced had I been alive I would have been at Antietam
    trying to kill them because I would have tried to stop slavery.


    There's no proof of this but I think they might have been part of the riots on Pratt St when
    they attacked union troops as the marched up to Camden Yards from Union Station in
    Little Italy. My family lived out Wilkens Ave and that's close to there. My grandfather always
    took my mom on walks down to the Lexington Market and the market on broadway where
    he bought fish.

    Those were really the first shots of the Civl War and 12 citizens were killed or wounded.
    I'm convinced my family was down there raising hell. That's where I get my hell raising
    from as you can tell-lol.

    Lincoln once again brought union troops to Bmore and put guns on Federal Hill. They
    could fire all the way out to 25th street. General Butler the Butcher said he'd do just
    that if they acted up again. They never did and the guns are still there point out to
    the city.

    Butler was the one who surrounded the state house as they voted to leave the union
    but didn't get his nick name til New Orleans where he butchered a lot of citizens like
    he promised to do here.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-26-2012 at 06:43 PM.




  14. #29
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    Re: Dumped from 24x7 Ravens forum on April 25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Raven View Post
    Cool, thanks, just downloaded it

    Have two hours before the draft, going to watch it now
    Watched it just now
    Very good film, realy enjoyed it, thumps up
    Some good songs in the soundtrack too
    Thanks for the recommendation AF

    I'm going offtopic now so I'll leave it at that




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