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  1. #25
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?



    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    Ozzie always says, "Right player at the right price." I believe Baltimore is heading to only the first part of that equation.

    I hate to say it, but the Raven's need to adopt the Patriot way on this one, let him walk. The NFL is too pass happy to pay that much to a back. Period.
    The Franchise tag numbers are way down this year so there is no reason to let him walk. It's not like there is another skill player we know could account for 45% of the offense on the roster. Everyone says backs are so easy to come by. Then you see teams like the Browns, Lions and Chiefs all get hurt when their top guys go down. Even a good passing team like the Lions melted down the stretch because they couldn't eat up enough clock. Unless you have a top QB, and we don't, you have to be able to run the ball.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  2. #26

    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    I lifted this from Peter King's mailbag and the writer really hits the nail on the head:

    "I think with all of the running-back holdouts who don't like being franchise-tagged (Ray Rice, Matt Forte), we now know the real losers of the 2011 CBA: running backs. Think about it: Let's say you are a 22-year-old first round pick. Your salary is "slotted" based on your draft position, no matter how special you may be. So you play out your four-year deal, and then the franchise can exercise the option for a 5th year. Now you're a 27-year-old RB. If you are still productive, the team can franchise you. After that, you're a 28-year-old free agent RB with 6 years and, let's say, 1,500 carries under your belt (250 carries a year for six years). What team is going to give a 28-year-old RB with 1,500-plus carries a long-term contract? After your four-year rookie deal, you are basically playing consecutive seasons on one-year deals (which means very little security in the event of a serious injury).''
    -- From Stan Diamond, of Glenwood Springs, Colo.


    Great job, Stan. Smart and cogent, and I agree with every word. ~ Peter King




  3. #27
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Silver View Post
    I lifted this from Peter King's mailbag and the writer really hits the nail on the head:

    "I think with all of the running-back holdouts who don't like being franchise-tagged (Ray Rice, Matt Forte), we now know the real losers of the 2011 CBA: running backs. Think about it: Let's say you are a 22-year-old first round pick. Your salary is "slotted" based on your draft position, no matter how special you may be. So you play out your four-year deal, and then the franchise can exercise the option for a 5th year. Now you're a 27-year-old RB. If you are still productive, the team can franchise you. After that, you're a 28-year-old free agent RB with 6 years and, let's say, 1,500 carries under your belt (250 carries a year for six years). What team is going to give a 28-year-old RB with 1,500-plus carries a long-term contract? After your four-year rookie deal, you are basically playing consecutive seasons on one-year deals (which means very little security in the event of a serious injury).''
    -- From Stan Diamond, of Glenwood Springs, Colo.


    Great job, Stan. Smart and cogent, and I agree with every word. ~ Peter King
    Ray Rice is just 25. You don't think the Jets, whose offense is based on running the ball even when it's not effective, wouldn't be all over Ray Rice? How about the Dolphins who have very limited offensive options and would instantly be able to transform their team. The Colts and Browns would also be interested. They need to take some pressure off young QBs and Rice instantly does that. The Colts are going to be facing a ton of pass rush this season and Luck is going to be out of luck while he's picking dirt out of his teeth.

    The position is devalued but there will still be a market for the top guys like Rice and Forte. It won't be close to Peterson money but it will be significant. We saw the Texans pay good money for Foster. The Eagles are in the middle of working a deal for McCoy right now. It's the guys who aren't top running backs who are going to be killed by the market. That's why Ozzie can say the Ravens will sign a good vet running back and there is no rush to do it.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #28
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by runrayrun27 View Post
    I don't know how this is possibly a question. Ray Rice is the offence, without him we would not have got nearly as far in the last 2 years and that is just the truth. Besides MoJo and maybe Foster he's the best in the league. Yes I think he's better than McCoy and AP.

    Flacco realistically is not that good of a quarterback. He makes a lot of mistakes that he shouldn't be making anymore, he fumbles way too much (blame it on the o-line maybe, but at the end of the day it's his responsibility). He can be great (Pittsburgh game), but he can also just shit the bed and I'm really getting sick of seeing it.

    If we took Flacco over Rice (if it came down to it) I'd find Ozzie and donkey punch him. I dont know if people are hockey fans but that's about as dumb as the Senators keeping Wade Redden over Chara (irrelevant, but you get the point)

    Obviously, this is my opinion, but i just cant see how people think Flacco could possibly be more valuable than Rice
    This may be one of the most shortsighted opinions on - not just Flacco - but offenses in the NFL.
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  5. #29

    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by runrayrun27 View Post
    I don't know how this is possibly a question. Ray Rice is the offence, without him we would not have got nearly as far in the last 2 years and that is just the truth. Besides MoJo and maybe Foster he's the best in the league. Yes I think he's better than McCoy and AP.

    Flacco realistically is not that good of a quarterback. He makes a lot of mistakes that he shouldn't be making anymore, he fumbles way too much (blame it on the o-line maybe, but at the end of the day it's his responsibility). He can be great (Pittsburgh game), but he can also just shit the bed and I'm really getting sick of seeing it.

    If we took Flacco over Rice (if it came down to it) I'd find
    Ozzie and donkey punch him. I dont know if people are hockey fans but that's about as dumb as the Senators
    keeping Wade Redden over Chara (irrelevant, but you get
    the point)

    Obviously, this is my opinion, but i just cant see how people think Flacco could possibly be more valuable than Rice

    Well, 4 years Rice was the Ravens 3rd RB and not for a stupid personal foul penalty late in the 4th Q by some scrub on special teams the Ravens might have gone to the SB.

    2 years prior Ravens went 13-3 home round bye, best record Ravens ever had/ no Rice.

    Rice has been crap last 3 playoff games and can't pickup yards in short yardage. HE IS A 2 DOWN BACK, not a 3 down back like FOSTER for instance.




  6. #30

    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by runrayrun27 View Post
    I don't know how this is possibly a question. Ray Rice is the offence, without him we would not have got nearly as far in the last 2 years and that is just the truth. Besides MoJo and maybe Foster he's the best in the league. Yes I think he's better than McCoy and AP.

    Flacco realistically is not that good of a quarterback. He makes a lot of mistakes that he shouldn't be making anymore, he fumbles way too much (blame it on the o-line maybe, but at the end of the day it's his responsibility). He can be great (Pittsburgh game), but he can also just shit the bed and I'm really getting sick of seeing it.

    If we took Flacco over Rice (if it came down to it) I'd find Ozzie and donkey punch him. I dont know if people are hockey fans but that's about as dumb as the Senators keeping Wade Redden over Chara (irrelevant, but you get the point)

    Obviously, this is my opinion, but i just cant see how people think Flacco could possibly be more valuable than Rice
    Might want to stick with Hockey because Evans dropped a pass and a missed FG and were in the SB last year without Rice doing much at all.




  7. #31
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    The rest of the AFC has answered this question already. Houston and New England were hell bent on stopping Ray Rice in the playoffs. Other than one game, Ray Rice's career playoff numbers are not great. The AFC has spoken: They will not, I repeat, will not, let Ray Rice run the Ravens to a Super Bowl.

    Yes, Ray Rice has been a significant contributor to the offense and I would be happy for him if he did get AP money, elsewhere.

    The reality is this: Give Joe Flacco better WRs and he can be the focal point of the offense. How many times, over these four years, have we seen Joe Flacco make clutch throws that were dropped? Do we really have to go through the list again? Give him some Coryell burners that can hold onto the ball and you will see a better Joe Flacco. Torrey Smith is one. The next one will likely join the team this week.
    I don't really follow your logic. Your saying that teams are hell bent on stopping Ray Rice which is true and I agree that some teams have been successful. What makes you think that team's won't be successful at taking Joe Flacco away once the defenses focus shifts to him? Reality is Flacco's job is a lot easier with Ray Rice than it is without him.




  8. #32
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    Reality is Flacco's job is a lot easier with A GOOD RUNNING GAME than it is without him.
    Fixed that for you.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  9. #33
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Well, 4 years Rice was the Ravens 3rd RB and not for a stupid personal foul penalty late in the 4th Q by some scrub on special teams the Ravens might have gone to the SB.

    2 years prior Ravens went 13-3 home round bye, best record Ravens ever had/ no Rice.

    Rice has been crap last 3 playoff games and can't pickup yards in short yardage. HE IS A 2 DOWN BACK, not a 3 down back like FOSTER for instance.
    And what about those regular season games where Rice pretty much carried our offense to victory to get to the play offs? What about the wild card play off game against the Patriots in 2009? What about the week 17 game in Cincy where we where fighting for home field advantage, it was basically a play off game for us. You don't make any sense at all, if Joe Flacco has a bad game it's his receivers fault right? What about when Rice has a bad game, do many people blame our offensive line? No they don't.




  10. #34
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Corey, this is a different type of situation. Foster and Rice are so similar in stats that it should be a no brainer.. the basic framework is
    already there. If Todd France wants to get a little more, but the Ravens want to keep it at the Foster's level, both sides will quickly split the difference. Its over quickly. This annoying delay obviously means France wants Rice paid much more... and I think we can all agree Rice simply isn't worth it. As a Ravens fan, this pisses me off b/c the Ravens FO isnt gonna overpay Rice to keep him so its a stupid battle. I do cut Rice a little bit of a break b/c this is France's stance, but ultimately the naive Rice has to realize that its not what's best for him. After the Ravens franchise him again in 2013, Rice isn't gonna get a great contract on the open market in 2014.
    Just like Suggs being paid as a DE or OLB was supposed to be a no brainer? Yet it took almost two years for the Ravens and Suggs to get that contract worked out. These things don't happen overnight. It doesn't matter what another player signed for.

    No one here knows ALL the terms of Foster's contract. We just know the basic numbers. There are other aspects that go into negotiating a contract. To assume that Rice would accept the exact same deal that Foster got is naive. Especially, when you don't know the language and ways out that are built into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    A lot of this is just an excuse for people to predict doom and gloom for us, or seem to want an excuse to get rid of Rice for whatever reasons. I think we have a good chance to keep both past 2012. And for the last time, where the hell are people actually getting the stupid idea that Rice has even asked anything close to AP money, no one really knows anything about what Rice and his agent are asking.
    Exactly. Rice and his agent have both disputed the report that Rice is trying to be the highest paid back in the league or that he wants AP money. Fans are overzealous when it comes to these things. It's always "the player didn't accept the first deal the team offered, he's not a team player. Get rid of him."




  11. #35

    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I don't really follow your logic. Your saying that teams are hell bent on stopping Ray Rice which is true and I agree that some teams have been successful. What makes you think that team's won't be successful at taking Joe Flacco away once the defenses focus shifts to him? Reality is Flacco's job is a lot easier with Ray Rice than it is without him.
    The Ravens were able to run the ball before Rice arrived and they will be able to run the ball after Rice leaves.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  12. #36
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    Re: Joe Flacco or Ray Rice?

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    And what about those regular season games where Rice pretty much carried our offense to victory to get to the play offs? What about the wild card play off game against the Patriots in 2009? What about the week 17 game in Cincy where we where fighting for home field advantage, it was basically a play off game for us. You don't make any sense at all, if Joe Flacco has a bad game it's his receivers fault right? What about when Rice has a bad game, do many people blame our offensive line? No they don't.
    Boulder doesn't.


    Most of us can see that the OL was the larger culprit for the anemic running game in the playoffs. No push whatsoever.
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