Most Undervalued Raven Free Agent?

[Carey]

Good call Shas w/McClellan, he really is an interesting case. He had 11 sacks as a sophmore, tore his acl and his production fell after that. He was hand in the dirt DE in college, made the conversion to 34 outside backer, played well on special teams and did what i thought was a hell of a job in that San Fran game. Im interested in seeing im he can expand his role, he looks to have some of the explosion back that got him the 11 sacks as a college sophmore.

[GOTA]

Ive stated on here before, I dont see a big difference between McClain and Ellerbe, and last year in particular he wasnt healthy. He is a better leader on the field though, ill give him that.

Guys weve lost all had backups besides Grubbs, which they did offer a pretty good contract for. I cant really say anybody we lost was undervalued just not enough cap to keep them. im sure in an uncapped NFL none of those guys are on different teams, with the exception of Grubbs who seems to have just really wanted to be in the south.

McClain is a try hard guy who overcomes limited ability with an incredible amount of heart.

Ellerbe is a rockhead who can't even stay in shape and keeps irritating Harbaugh

That's the difference.

[JAB1985]

McClain is a try hard guy who overcomes limited ability with an incredible amount of heart.

Ellerbe is a rockhead who can't even stay in shape and keeps irritating Harbaugh

That's the difference.

you keep holding his 2nd year against him, by all accounts that wasnt the case this year. from what was reported he showed up in shape and the coaches were happy with him, going out of their way to praise him. he just wasnt able to show us because he was hurt the majority of it. 11 of 16 weeks he was on the injury report (hamstring & concussion, both lingering injuries). ill take that "knucklehead" with the higher ceiling when in this case theyre both depth player anyway. At least ellerbe has the potential to be more, and right now hes not much if any better or worse than him.

[Raven Maniac]

Lee Evans. He got off to a bad start early on with the ankle injury and missed to many games to ever have the chance to gel with Flacco and Cam never used him to his full potential when he did play. Evan's is a good receiver that never had the chance to display his full skill set while he was with us and now he has the cooties because he muffed the big play. I'd take him back though, I'd love to see him get the chance to redeem himself.

[GOTA]

you keep holding his 2nd year against him, by all accounts that wasnt the case this year. from what was reported he showed up in shape and the coaches were happy with him, going out of their way to praise him. he just wasnt able to show us because he was hurt the majority of it. 11 of 16 weeks he was on the injury report (hamstring & concussion, both lingering injuries). ill take that "knucklehead" with the higher ceiling when in this case theyre both depth player anyway. At least ellerbe has the potential to be more, and right now hes not much if any better or worse than him.

I'll bet you that McClain has a longer career and ends up starting more games than Ellerbe.

[JAB1985]

I'll bet you that McClain has a longer career and ends up starting more games than Ellerbe.

considering the life of NFL careers and that hes in a 32-7 hole, im not sure that would be a good bet to take. he could be in a 3 season hole before he gets to another team. He was pushing for that starting job in TC, so if he stayed healthy and won that out id probably take you up on that, but if those things happened you probably wouldnt be making that bet either. my point is their interchangeable when healthy, but Ellerbe has more he can improve upon while McClain is limited on his weaknesses outside physical abilities. well see how it goes, but i dont think the coaches are as down on him as you and some other fans are.

[bmorecareful]

considering the life of NFL careers and that hes in a 32-7 hole, im not sure that would be a good bet to take. he could be in a 3 season hole before he gets to another team. He was pushing for that starting job in TC, so if he stayed healthy and won that out id probably take you up on that, but if those things happened you probably wouldnt be making that bet either. my point is their interchangeable when healthy, but Ellerbe has more he can improve upon while McClain is limited on his weaknesses outside physical abilities. well see how it goes, but i dont think the coaches are as down on him as you and some other fans are.

I don't see the argument that they're interchangeable when healthy. When Ellerbe was on the field late last year, he was horrible. Watch the Patriots game, every time he was on the field they ran the ball at him and threw the ball at him. There's a good reason McClain has started every game the last 2 years over Ellerbe--he's a better player.

Sure, there are plenty of excuses for Ellerbe from 2011, and excuses in 2010, and excuses and excuses and excuses. Look, the guy was hurt last year, but even when he wasn't hurt, he wasn't seeing the field. People are still grasping onto those handful of games he had at the end of 2009 when he played well... but the problem with this guy is he can't do that for 16 games a year. He can't even do it for 60 minutes within a game.

I don't think Ellerbe has the mental acumen or work habits to be an NFL LB. I'm also not at all convinced that he's some sort of freak athlete compared to McClain, who doesn't have the "physical limitations" you guys seem to keep harping on. Athletically Ellerbe doesn't move well in space or track the ball in the air--the same flaws McClain has. I'm not really comfortable with either of them as more than 2 down LBs, but Ellerbe misses a lot of tackles and doesn't play good assignment football, which McClain does.

Maybe the coaches are secretly high on Ellerbe, but that runs counter to everything we've seen and heard at this point. The evidence points to Ellerbe being a guy the team doesn't want to see the field unless there are no other options. I think they feel better about McClellan than Ellerbe, to be honest.

Maybe Ellerbe makes a big leap forward next year, but expecting that is going off of hopes and prayers rather than any reasonable expectations.

[JAB1985]

I don't see the argument that they're interchangeable when healthy. When Ellerbe was on the field late last year, he was horrible. Watch the Patriots game, every time he was on the field they ran the ball at him and threw the ball at him. There's a good reason McClain has started every game the last 2 years over Ellerbe--he's a better player.

Sure, there are plenty of excuses for Ellerbe from 2011, and excuses in 2010, and excuses and excuses and excuses. Look, the guy was hurt last year, but even when he wasn't hurt, he wasn't seeing the field. People are still grasping onto those handful of games he had at the end of 2009 when he played well... but the problem with this guy is he can't do that for 16 games a year. He can't even do it for 60 minutes within a game.

I don't think Ellerbe has the mental acumen or work habits to be an NFL LB. I'm also not at all convinced that he's some sort of freak athlete compared to McClain, who doesn't have the "physical limitations" you guys seem to keep harping on. Athletically Ellerbe doesn't move well in space or track the ball in the air--the same flaws McClain has. I'm not really comfortable with either of them as more than 2 down LBs, but Ellerbe misses a lot of tackles and doesn't play good assignment football, which McClain does.

Maybe the coaches are secretly high on Ellerbe, but that runs counter to everything we've seen and heard at this point. The evidence points to Ellerbe being a guy the team doesn't want to see the field unless there are no other options. I think they feel better about McClellan than Ellerbe, to be honest.

Maybe Ellerbe makes a big leap forward next year, but expecting that is going off of hopes and prayers rather than any reasonable expectations.

He actually played pretty well in 2010 as he did in 2009 but was in the "doghouse". He fixed those issues and the coaches made it a point to praise him this past TC. He was pushing McClain for that spot, but like i said i think McClains overall grasp of the defense made him the choice, which is something Ellerbe is lacking, but can improve upon. Ellerbe was getting a good amount of playing time when healthy enough to suit up. Once again going off the latest information from the team, it points to them liking Ellerbe not disliking him. You go by 2010 when he arguably played better than McClain but had a poor attitude, sure hes a misfit knucklehead. if you go by the latest, he showed up to camp in shape and pushed mcclain for the starting gig while receiving the coaches praises, got hurt which limited his PT, and then was signed to a pretty high RFA tender. all things point to them liking him at this point. They obviously do feel better about McClain as a player right now over him or he wouldnt be starting over him. I think to pass McClain its not going to take "hopes and prayers". McClain isnt that great of a player which im not claiming that Ellerbe is the 2nd coming either, just that he has more potential to get better. like i said theyre both depth players but McClains understanding of the defense is something they value, not only now, but if ray retires to help teach the eventual replacement.

Injuries are not excuses. That line of thinking really irks me. Ill never hold it against a player that gets hurt for my entertainment.

[JustaslowZ06]

I thought Ellerbe was going to be something also, but wow when he did get on the field last year he was pretty bad.

McClellan is interesting, they have him listed as a DE although his size says LB. Be interesting to see where they use him this year. Maybe beating out Ellerbe at MLB. Or will he compete at OLB for obvious run plays and use Kruger on passing downs? Anyways guy I completely forgot about.

[bmorecareful]

He actually played pretty well in 2010 as he did in 2009 but was in the "doghouse". He fixed those issues and the coaches made it a point to praise him this past TC. He was pushing McClain for that spot, but like i said i think McClains overall grasp of the defense made him the choice, which is something Ellerbe is lacking, but can improve upon. Ellerbe was getting a good amount of playing time when healthy enough to suit up. Once again going off the latest information from the team, it points to them liking Ellerbe not disliking him. You go by 2010 when he arguably played better than McClain but had a poor attitude, sure hes a misfit knucklehead. if you go by the latest, he showed up to camp in shape and pushed mcclain for the starting gig while receiving the coaches praises, got hurt which limited his PT, and then was signed to a pretty high RFA tender. all things point to them liking him at this point. They obviously do feel better about McClain as a player right now over him or he wouldnt be starting over him. I think to pass McClain its not going to take "hopes and prayers". McClain isnt that great of a player which im not claiming that Ellerbe is the 2nd coming either, just that he has more potential to get better. like i said theyre both depth players but McClains understanding of the defense is something they value, not only now, but if ray retires to help teach the eventual replacement.

Injuries are not excuses. That line of thinking really irks me. Ill never hold it against a player that gets hurt for my entertainment.

The coaches praise everybody in training camp. When do they ever openly say they think a player sucks? They might praise Ellerbe, but they kept him off the field at all costs. I'll go by what they do rather than what they say, to be honest.

Ellerbe didn't play a lot of defense in 2010 so I'm not sure where the argument is that he "outplayed" McClain--he only showed up on the stat sheet in 8 games and didn't even take a defensive snap in several of those games. I haven't watched any of the 2010 games recently, so maybe he really does jump off the tape, but I kinda doubt it.

I guess I just don't really see the potential for him that you do. He's Just A Guy. Maybe McClain is too, but I like what McClain offers on the field, honestly. Maybe I'm overrating him? I trust McClain out there, but I don't trust Ellerbe at all. He's as likely to get a pointless penalty or overrun a tackle as he is to make a play. Maybe I'm indirectly acknowledging that he does have some ability, I just don't see it as outweighing McClain's combination of ability and intelligence.

And finally, I'm not knocking Ellerbe for getting hurt, I'm just saying that the injuries aren't an excuse for the fact that when he WAS healthy, he 1) usually couldn't get on the field, 2) was bad when he WAS on the field. Injuries don't have anything to do with that, unless of course he was still hurt which is hard to know for sure. I don't hold getting dinged up against him at all.

[bmorecareful]

I thought Ellerbe was going to be something also, but wow when he did get on the field last year he was pretty bad.

McClellan is interesting, they have him listed as a DE although his size says LB. Be interesting to see where they use him this year. Maybe beating out Ellerbe at MLB. Or will he compete at OLB for obvious run plays and use Kruger on passing downs? Anyways guy I completely forgot about.

Last year they used McClellan as the extra LB in the 4-4-3 (run heavy/goal line) package, picking him over any other LB on the roster. I think that's telling in and of itself, obviously they trust him as a run defender and assignment player.

When Ellerbe and Lewis were hurt he played next to McClain at the WILL spot in the 3-4 and WLB in the 4-3 (essentially taking McClain's own spot while Jameel moved over to play Ray's MIKE/MLB spot.) So they liked him to play inside at that time.

Recently Ozzie was quoted as saying that McClellan and Kruger will compete for JJ's SAM spot, so they obviously think he can also slide over and play the strong side also. That's awesome that they think he has that kind of versatility. Even if he loses the spot to Kruger I think he'll be the main backup at SLB/WLB and catch time on running downs.

[JAB1985]

The coaches praise everybody in training camp. When do they ever openly say they think a player sucks? They might praise Ellerbe, but they kept him off the field at all costs. I'll go by what they do rather than what they say, to be honest.

Ellerbe didn't play a lot of defense in 2010 so I'm not sure where the argument is that he "outplayed" McClain--he only showed up on the stat sheet in 8 games and didn't even take a defensive snap in several of those games. I haven't watched any of the 2010 games recently, so maybe he really does jump off the tape, but I kinda doubt it.

I guess I just don't really see the potential for him that you do. He's Just A Guy. Maybe McClain is too, but I like what McClain offers on the field, honestly. Maybe I'm overrating him? I trust McClain out there, but I don't trust Ellerbe at all. He's as likely to get a pointless penalty or overrun a tackle as he is to make a play. Maybe I'm indirectly acknowledging that he does have some ability, I just don't see it as outweighing McClain's combination of ability and intelligence.

And finally, I'm not knocking Ellerbe for getting hurt, I'm just saying that the injuries aren't an excuse for the fact that when he WAS healthy, he 1) usually couldn't get on the field, 2) was bad when he WAS on the field. Injuries don't have anything to do with that, unless of course he was still hurt which is hard to know for sure. I don't hold getting dinged up against him at all.

They dont go out of their way to praise a guy for showing up in shape and with a good attitude unless he has it. No they dont go out of their way to Knock a player (typically) but they certainly dont go out of their way to praise them unjustly. 2010, he was used very sparingly, due to not be in the coaches favor, but he was always around the ball when he did play (31 tackles, sack, PD, in 11 games, which i agree he didnt play much in them). To me he stood out, difference of opinion if you feel otherwise, but i distinctly remember that and having conversations about Harbaughs doghouse possibly hurting the product thats on the field. Overrating McClain may be the issue, but i dont see how he stands out more or less than Ellerbe when you watch the two. everyone wants to point to the AFCC game and quite frankly i dont remember him playing that horrible although ill admit it wasnt good either, but even so everyone can have a bad game, and with the little amount he was healthy, it isnt surprising for him to have a bad game. lastly, when he was healthy, he was getting a good amount of PT, he was injured 11 of 16 weeks this past year. one of those, he came back to play when Ray got hurt and reaggravated his hamstring and was back to the injury report the next week for the same injurt. To me that proves that he was at least attempting to play through it and was being a team player when we needed him.