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Thread: Flacco Deal Update...
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Re: Flacco Deal Update...
Wanna know what kills me?
Last year, when Flacco's stats were among the best in the league, the usual suspects where all "but that doesn't mean anything, just look at him play".
Now when people are saying the stats don't tell the whole story, Flacco visibly played better, made more clutch plays, etc, those same people are saying "but his stats went down".
Those same people also bashed Flacco for not having good numbers in the playoffs. Now that over the last two years his rating is in the mid-upper 90's, they want to dismiss them.
There is no winning with these people, and quite frankly, I think most of us are getting tired of this stupid, idiotic debate. Look at what this thread, that started out as something informative, has turned into.
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04-09-2012, 11:00 PM #158Veteran Poster
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Re: Flacco Deal Update...
Rivers' year before he got his extension was off-the-charts good. Totally different than Flacco's last year. I am not saying Flacco isn't as good as Rivers (though I probably would). And I am definitely not saying Flacco cannot become better than Rivers will ever be. All I am saying is at the time the contracts were negotiated, Rivers was by FAR more able to argue for big money.
Rivers signed in August of 2009. His 2008 season consisted of a 105.5 QB rating (best in league by 8 pts), 34 TDs (tied for best in league with Brees), 11 Ints only (6 less than Brees), 4009 yards (5th in league BUT he had way less attempts than those ahead of him such that his YPA was significantly the best in league at 8.39). In short, Rivers could easily argue he was the best QB in the league in 2008; even if he might not quite win that argument, it wouldn't be a stretch to claim that by any means. And since we all agree that you pay people for their trajectory as much as anything, his huge deal was easy to rationalize. Age also isn't relevant to the comparison because Rivers was roughly the same age as Joe is now when he signed; he had played one extra year in the league but came out 1 year earlier than Joe.
As for BigBen, he signed his 'big' deal in March of 2008. He also had a ring at that point and his stats for the 2007 season, were: QB rating 104.1 (2nd behind Brady), 32 TDs (3rd in league), 'only' 3154 yards, but only 404 attempts, gving him a YPA of 7.81 (4th in the league). He also made the ProBowl. And also the deal was 8 yrs for 'only' $102M, less than $13M per.
As for total 'career' statistics, I would say that they matter less than the trend/trajectory. And more importantly, passing stats have been going up across the league and completely spiked last year, making it harder to compare year to year totals without some kind of adjustment.
Eli's big-money extension was signed in the preseason of 2009. If Eli had not won a SuperBowl in 2007 and then followed it up with a significantly improved year statistically (to his fairly mundane stats from 2003-2007) I don't think he gets anywhere near that extension. Eli is the one that is closest to Flacco in terms of performance in the contract year. Eli's year was better but not by a ton, but more importantly it was better than the year before (he improved). And again he had a SB title and SB MVP under his belt.
While we can agree or disagree about how Flacco's stats are harmed by forces outside his control, the fact remains, he is not coming into the negotiations with as much leverage as these other three were when they signed their deals. QB rating ranking around 15th-18th depending on who you include, TDs tied for 13th, yardage ranked 12th, YPA ranked a pitiful 24th. That doesn't mean he doesn't have leverage obviously, I would just say that it isn't some kind of 'given' that he deserves deals similar to the deals these three signed.
As for inflation, I hear you and agree, though the salary cap in 2009 was $123M, roughly the same as it will be this year (and maybe next). Also, as has been said, the guaranteed money (and structure/details) is really as crucial as the total and yearly average.Last edited by Haloti92; 04-09-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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04-10-2012, 06:10 AM #159
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04-10-2012, 07:03 AM #162Legendary RSR Poster
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Re: Flacco Deal Update...
Are you insinuating that players can't get better each year?
Or, are you pretty much claiming that players only have a "4 or 5 year window to become what they are".
I also like how you include Rodgers and Roethlisberger in this convo when Rodgers had a top 5 defense when the Packers won the Super Bowl and Roethlisberger has had a top 5 defense every year he's been in the league...yet you're one of the posters who are so quick to claim that the Ravens defense is REALLY the reason why the Ravens win and are constantly bailing Joe out.Last edited by wickedsolo; 04-10-2012 at 07:31 AM.
Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
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04-10-2012, 07:28 AM #164
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Re: Flacco Deal Update...
i completely agree that he doesnt have as much leverage as he would have had, even the year before. I do think the team realizes those outside factors but obviously are going to use that for their benefit, making now the best time to sign him rather than waiting a year when, in a reality his stats will probably go back up closer to his previous trajectory and give him more leverage. I think with everything said hes still going to end up getting in that 6-7 for 85-100 with 35-40 guaranteed range simply because thats what its going to take to sign him and they have to.
I agree with this as well. A lot of people just have their mind made up about Flacco and there is no reasoning with them. theyll use whatever they can cling to try to support their hatred. I feel some of these guys are the ones still crying about Troy Smith as well... where is he again?-JAB
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04-10-2012, 08:02 AM #166Veteran Poster
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Re: Flacco Deal Update...
The only difference between Eli and Joe at this point in their careers is that Eli had receivers catching balls off their helmets and Joe has receivers dropping passes in their arms.
The defense has not bailed Joe out. The defense has held the offense back. The mentality of the Ravens is for the offense to not lose the game. The game plans are ultra conservative. The Oline can't run block of pass block. Rice is supposedly this great back yet the Ravens are only a mediocre running team. Middle of the road in total yards and yards per carry. The oline is poorly coached. We are one of the few remaining teams that use a full back and only go from the shotgun on obvious passing situations. This offense would turn Tom Brady and Aaron Rogers into mediocre QBs. Joe and Ray would be infinitely more successful in the Ravens opened up the offense. Ray Rice is the ideal back for a more spread offense yet the Ravens utilize him as if he is Jerome Bettis. And yet the Ravens can't even pick up short yardage when necessary. The running game and Rice disappeared in the playoffs. It was not until Cam opened it up against the Pats that they had any success. The Oline could not run block or pass block against Houston.
The Ravens offense is where good QBs go to die. Joe should be hoping to go to a team with a real OC and offensive philosophy.
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04-10-2012, 08:10 AM #167Hall Of Fame Poster
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Re: Flacco Deal Update...
Any player entering his 5th year is pretty much who he's going to be. Especially given the fact that he's started every game and has additional starts in the post season. Flacco will never be Rodgers, Brady or Brees or Roethlisberger for that matter. But that's not an indictment. Those are very very talented quarterbacks. Flacco can win a Superbowl if they continue to build around him. And to answer your second question, Rodgers and Roethlisberger rode those great defenses to championships. Flacco hasn't yet.
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