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  1. #169
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...



    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Any player entering his 5th year is pretty much who he's going to be. Especially given the fact that he's started every game and has additional starts in the post season. Flacco will never be Rodgers, Brady or Brees or Roethlisberger for that matter. But that's not an indictment. Those are very very talented quarterbacks. Flacco can win a Superbowl if they continue to build around him. And to answer your second question, Rodgers and Roethlisberger rode those great defenses to championships. Flacco hasn't yet.
    Well damn, I guess someone should let Brees in on that little tidbit because entering his 5th season he was coming off a 3100 yard season! How dare he go to New Orleans and get better each year...he's completely ruining your claim there man. Same with Roethlisberger. Heading into his 5th season he was coming off of a 3100 yard season. The past 3 seasons Roethlisberger has averaged over 3800 yards per season including two over 4000 yard seasons.

    The point is, players can get better and the QB is one of the only positions in the NFL where your peak years don't normally come until your late 20's and early 30's.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

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  2. #170

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Well damn, I guess someone should let Brees in on that little tidbit because entering his 5th season he was coming off a 3100 yard season! How dare he go to New Orleans and get better each year...he's completely ruining your claim there man. Same with Roethlisberger. Heading into his 5th season he was coming off of a 3100 yard season. The past 3 seasons Roethlisberger has averaged over 3800 yards per season including two over 4000 yard seasons.

    The point is, players can get better and the QB is one of the only positions in the NFL where your peak years don't normally come until your late 20's and early 30's.
    Too add to that sentiment.

    48.2% 1043
    52.8% 3,762
    57.7% 3,244
    56.1% 3336
    60.3% 3238

    Eli Manning's first 5 years. took him 5 years just to get to 60%. the following 3...

    62.3% 4021
    62.9% 4002
    61% 4933

    If you think Joe is what he is now and will never get better, i think Eli is the most comparable player to him (as well as the Giants as a whole, good defense, good OL) and quite frankly we never had the receiving corps he did, which says a lot about joes future.
    -JAB




  3. #171
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Well damn, I guess someone should let Brees in on that little tidbit because entering his 5th season he was coming off a 3100 yard season! How dare he go to New Orleans and get better each year...he's completely ruining your claim there man. Same with Roethlisberger. Heading into his 5th season he was coming off of a 3100 yard season. The past 3 seasons Roethlisberger has averaged over 3800 yards per season including two over 4000 yard seasons.

    The point is, players can get better and the QB is one of the only positions in the NFL where your peak years don't normally come until your late 20's and early 30's.
    Fair enough. Although Brees changed teams, schemes, and offensive coordinators. Roethlisberger's evolvement came about as he was given more control over the offense, same as Eli. Can you honestly say that Flacco is going to be given more control with Cam around?




  4. #172

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Fair enough. Although Brees changed teams, schemes, and offensive coordinators. Roethlisberger's evolvement came about as he was given more control over the offense, same as Eli. Can you honestly say that Flacco is going to be given more control with Cam around?
    Your final line says it all. The issue is not Flacco but rather the OC and the offensive philosophy. If the Ravens were to modernize the offense I believe you would see his stats take off. Flacco is the most important player to the long term success of the Franchise. The sooner they start building around him both from a player and a coach standpoint the better. Oline does not block and the wrs do not get open. How do these coaches on the offensive side of the ball keep their jobs?




  5. #173
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by srobert96 View Post
    Your final line says it all. The issue is not Flacco but rather the OC and the offensive philosophy. If the Ravens were to modernize the offense I believe you would see his stats take off. Flacco is the most important player to the long term success of the Franchise. The sooner they start building around him both from a player and a coach standpoint the better. Oline does not block and the wrs do not get open. How do these coaches on the offensive side of the ball keep their jobs?
    That's the question everyone should be asking.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  6. #174

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    I dont know what you watched, but Flacco had a pretty shitty season last year, even to his standards which already arent very high.

    Flacco has always had the benefit of a ridiculously good defense to bail him out.

    And that absolutely should reflect in his contract.
    Really??? So Joe should pay for the fact that in a year with no OTA's the Ravens gave Joe one receiver to throw to who had any significant NFL catches (Boldin), a washed up vet (Evans) and a some rookies. Give me one other even decent QB who had less to work with and made more out of it. Lets get real here, it was not until towards end of the year that Torrey Smith became more than a burner who Joe threw really far and he out ran the defense to the ball. Considering what he was given to work with and the fact he had an OC who was oblivious to it and insisted on throwing the ball continuously to receivers who could not get separation, I think he did a pretty damn good job overall.

    Treat your franchise QB that way and lowball him and that's a good way to be the Miami Dolphins, Seattle Seahawks, Redskins etc wandering around looking for a QB who can play. It just seems like some people think the only definition of a QB worth keeping is if they are a Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Brady etc. Those guys took some time to grow also they went through there bumps and bruises as well. Flacco compares favorably over his first 4yrs to those type guys. Not saying he is as good or ever will be as them, just saying he compares well enough that your highly unlikely to get a guy anytime soon who will play as well if you lose him. Your far more likely to become one of the lost in the desert teams at QB like the Browns, Seahawks, Redskins, Dolphins, Bills, and the Ravens prior to Flacco's arrival. He is a valuable commodity (far more so than Rice) and will be expensive to keep but worth every dime
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  7. #175

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Well damn, I guess someone should let Brees in on that little tidbit because entering his 5th season he was coming off a 3100 yard season! How dare he go to New Orleans and get better each year...he's completely ruining your claim there man. Same with Roethlisberger. Heading into his 5th season he was coming off of a 3100 yard season. The past 3 seasons Roethlisberger has averaged over 3800 yards per season including two over 4000 yard seasons.

    The point is, players can get better and the QB is one of the only positions in the NFL where your peak years don't normally come until your late 20's and early 30's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    Fair enough. Although Brees changed teams, schemes, and offensive coordinators. Roethlisberger's evolvement came about as he was given more control over the offense, same as Eli. Can you honestly say that Flacco is going to be given more control with Cam around?
    Who says Cam is staying around?

    Just
    white+flag.jpg
    like a man and be done with it.

    Plenty of good young QBs have gotten better at Joe's age and plenty of good young QBs besides Joe have been complemented by elite defenses.

    Move on...
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  8. #176

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by landspeed View Post
    I dont know what you watched, but Flacco had a pretty shitty season last year, even to his standards which already arent very high.

    Flacco has always had the benefit of a ridiculously good defense to bail him out.

    And that absolutely should reflect in his contract.
    Really??? So Joe should pay for the fact that in a year with no OTA's the Ravens gave Joe one receiver to throw to who had any significant NFL catches (Boldin), a washed up vet (Evans) and a some rookies. Give me one other even decent QB who had less to work with and made more out of it. Lets get real here, it was not until towards end of the year that Torrey Smith became more than a burner who Joe threw really far and he out ran the defense to the ball. Considering what he was given to work with and the fact he had an OC who was oblivious to it and insisted on throwing the ball continuously to receivers who could not get separation, I think he did a pretty damn good job overall.

    Treat your franchise QB that way and lowball him and that's a good way to be the Miami Dolphins, Seattle Seahawks, Redskins etc wandering around looking for a QB who can play. It just seems like some people think the only definition of a QB worth keeping is if they are a Rodgers, Manning, Brees, Brady etc. Those guys took some time to grow also they went through there bumps and bruises as well. Flacco compares favorably over his first 4yrs to those type guys. Not saying he is as good or ever will be as them, just saying he compares well enough that your highly unlikely to get a guy anytime soon who will play as well if you lose him. Your far more likely to become one of the lost in the desert teams at QB like the Browns, Seahawks, Redskins, Dolphins, Bills, and the Ravens prior to Flacco's arrival. He is a valuable commodity (far more so than Rice) and will be expensive to keep but worth every dime
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  9. #177
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    I've gone through 5, 6...7 pages and can't find an update like the title suggest.

    Was this a ploy to start a debate about how good Joe is or isn't? I can go to the Joe Comments thread for that.

    Does anyone have an actual update on this?




  10. #178

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I've gone through 5, 6...7 pages and can't find an update like the title suggest.

    Was this a ploy to start a debate about how good Joe is or isn't?
    It was a very elaborate rickroll, sucker!

    Every time this idiotic thread gets bumped, I wonder if there's news in it. Sadly, not yet.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  11. #179

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post



    Great post and completely true.
    It may be true, but it isn't really damning. Also the reverse is true (people bleating "look at his stats" to defend him last year, while claiming they are meaningless this year).

    It again comes down to people having different eye tests. The poster you agreed with assumes Flacco played better last year using his eye test, others disagree. I happen to believe Flacco visibly improved last year in some aspects, but not all. I also think he was asked to do more. I don't think it was the case that he was initially (in 2008) given 100% of the offensive possibilities/responsibilities/playbook and asked to learn them all and has since been slowly ticking off things from the list as 'learned.' I think it is more accurate to say they are piecing out the material (over years), and as he gets some stuff down (or gets the supporting players required), they expand and add new stuff, reads that are riskier, harder, or that need to be made quicker, etc. So in any given year it is possible both to say he improved in areas X, but overall his stats/performance as a whole may not have been 'better' in some people's opinions.

    As for 2010's stats, they were good, but it was one year. And to claim that people that were hesitant to accept that they meant Joe had reached a level from which he could never go back is unreasonable. Look at Josh Freeman's stats or Matt Cassel's stats in 2010 (or even Vick's); were they anomalous, who knows for sure, but there was a significant drop in one year's time.

    My opinion is that in 2010, Joe's stats looked a bit better than his eye test, and his stats in 2011 look at lot worse than his eye test. Such is the nature of "stats." There will never be any consensus on eye tests, and it will always be impossible to convince someone that their eye test is incorrect. The only possible way to do it is with some kind of objective, or mutually agreed to measuring device, which we don't have. The closest we have is stats, and it isn't very close; we all know they are unreliable enough, even if they have some value, that both sides can 'use' them, with enough finessing, to support their opinions or views (eye tests).




  12. #180
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I've gone through 5, 6...7 pages and can't find an update like the title suggest.

    Was this a ploy to start a debate about how good Joe is or isn't? I can go to the Joe Comments thread for that.

    Does anyone have an actual update on this?
    Actually I tossed up a link a few pages back that said contrary to previous reports from PFT, Joe's agent (Joe Linta) and the Ravens brass have met at least twice face-to-face on Flacco's contract.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


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