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  1. #91

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...



    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Most of his TD's where longer runs.
    Oh, I didn't know that somehow negated them. Foolishly, I thought that made them more valuable.



    One thing to remember the Ravens made the AFCC game 4 years ago and Rice was our 3rd leading rusher behind Mcgahee and MCClain.
    Yeah, and A) He still had a better YPC average than either of them, and B) It's amazing to think that he might have improved from his rookie year, but it's possible.


    ce can't get 3rd and short for TD's or first downs consistently everyone knows that.
    Oh does "everyone?"

    I remember when everyone knew that John Elway couldn't win the big one.

    I remember when everyone knew that Vernon Davis was a head-case bust.

    I remember when we didn't make political statements in the football forums.

    In my experience, everyone doesn't know shit.
    Last edited by StingerNLG; 04-08-2012 at 08:36 PM.




  2. #92

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    I'm not putting up any evidence that good QBs make the playoffs... at least, such was not my intent. Judging by Tebow, it's apparent that bad QBs make the playoffs as well, though perhaps less frequently.

    Perhaps? Do you really need to modify that statement?

    Of course, bad QBs make the playoffs less frequently. The same goes for bad teams. But it doesn't give much insight into Flacco though.




  3. #93

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post

    Now, I'm not saying you pay Rice whatever he wants. Personally, I think a deal in the Foster range, even if it exceeds it by a bit, is fine. An AP or CJ contract is not. However, the idea that we'd somehow be BETTER off w/o Rice, is downright absurd imo.




  4. #94
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    Oh, I didn't know that somehow negated them. Foolishly, I thought that made them more valuable.





    Yeah, and A) He still had a better YPC average than either of them, and B) It's amazing to think that he might have improved from his rookie year, but it's possible.




    Oh does "everyone?"

    I remember when everyone knew that John Elway couldn't win the big one.

    I remember when everyone knew that Vernon Davis was a head-case bust.

    I remember when everyone knew that Iraq was responsible for 9-11.

    In my experience, everyone doesn't know shit.
    Don't waste your time on him, he is impossible, he just has some passionate hatred towards Rice lol




  5. #95

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    Oh, I didn't know that somehow negated them. Foolishly, I thought that made them more valuable.





    Yeah, and A) He still had a better YPC average than either of them, and B) It's amazing to think that he might have improved from his rookie year, but it's possible.




    Oh does "everyone?"

    I remember when everyone knew that John Elway couldn't win the big one.

    I remember when everyone knew that Vernon Davis was a head-case bust.

    I remember when everyone knew that Iraq was responsible for 9-11.

    In my experience, everyone doesn't know shit.
    Sucks when the know it alls are wrong. Still Wacco for Flacco!




  6. #96

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensnhokies View Post
    Signing Flacco longterm is 10X more important than inking Rice.

    Rice is maybe the best receiving back in the league. He is the beneficiary of being in Cam's offense where he is main short/checkdown option with all our WRs running deep routes (and not adept at getting open, I might add). That's why Ray gets a lot of balsl thrown his way, and he is pretty damn good in space.

    Running the ball.... I'm not as up as many of you are on Rice's production. Last year, I think he left far too many yards on field with Leach opening up a hole, and Rice not following his path of destruction. Sure Rice broke a lot of big ones, but he sure had a bunch of 2yd gains that should have been 5-7yds if hit the hole right. Its like he was a Home Run hitter.... Got the Home Runs (1 Sometimes 2 20yd+ gains/game), but struck out a lot (too many 1 or 2 yd gains). He has to hit more singles (5yders) and doubles (10yders) next year.

    So what does that mean.... Pretty simple--- a deal equivalent to Foster (who is a better rushing RB, but not quite Rice's caliber in passing game). Rice's agent is asking too much if the Ravens are offering a similar deal. We can't break the bank and be stupid. Honestly, its about time Cam's offense scheme gets with the times and have our WRs become the focus of the passing game. If that finally happens, a great receiving RB is not as important. I'd rather allocate more dough to the WR position, than breaking the bank to keep Rice.
    The fact that our receivers never getting open isnt their fault. Its because cams playbook is shit. No creative routes, no ability for the receivers to get open, he has a controlling mindset that means the players do what he wants them to do.

    4 years, +10 different receivers, same results. Only thing consistent has been cam.




  7. #97
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayc00 View Post
    What would you say he did in the playoffs?
    In one game he led a pedestrian offensive performance, being the beneficiary of two gift wrapped TD's and in the second game he had a decent game against one of the worse defenses in the league. And lost.




  8. #98

    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    I'm not putting up any evidence that good QBs make the playoffs... at least, such was not my intent. Judging by Tebow, it's apparent that bad QBs make the playoffs as well, though perhaps less frequently.

    Look--I'm not hating on Flacco. I hope he passes for a zillion yards next year, wins the Super Bowl in a blowout and has the Swedish bikini team fall in love with him. I am not, however, going to be blind to the fact that last year was not as good as it should have been. And if I were the Ravens front office, I'd make damn sure last year was an aberration before I committed a lot of money to him.
    you must have had really high expectations for a receiving core that barely had any catches outside of boldin. which i think is the problem with a lot of fans, wanting him to be more in a system that doesnt really allow him to be. I think theres plenty of evidence that already suggests that was an aberration if youd like to call it that. Hes had steady progression in stats and efficiency every year until last year when he lost his top WRs, and even then only really dropped in completion percentage to an unsatisfactory level (which makes sense with a bunch of green receivers). youre saying the team wins not joe, but then saying joes stats werent as good as they should have been when his are dependent upon the team (receivers) performing, which is why i think you are turning a blind eye. 80.3 88.9 93.6 80.9 over 4 years, hes a QB that is in that 90+/- efficiency range with room to get better. his rookie year and last year being the only ones out of that range with reason. hes averaged 62% CP for his career before this year which i think proves the receivers issues this past year. I dont think there is an inclination that the FO isnt happy with his play of last year. They made it a point to call out the real problem, "we need wrs that can catch" because that was the issue. Id even go as far as to say Wrs that run good routes and can get open on 1 on 1 situations goes into that statement as you cant catch if you dont do those as well and that was the real issue with the offense last year. other teams can see that and know what Joe is, if he hit the open market, which yound in their prime QBs with his pedigree rarely if ever do, hell be highly sought after.

    hes a top 10 QB in this league when given the talent around him to perform but obviously not elite in a way to make lesser talent perform like greats like brees brady and manning do. Rodgers Eli Roethlisberger Rivers Romo Stafford Ryan and Flacco are probably in that next tier. I cant say any of them have as bad of Receivers as Flacco does (or such an unimaginative OC) and that makes it hard to compare when you have such great WR talent. i cant say i wouldnt put him ahead of a bunch them as is anyway. I dont think fans here realize how good we got it sometimes.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 04-09-2012 at 07:52 AM.
    -JAB




  9. #99
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Well I think Rice is better than CJ lol, CJ was horrible in 2011. I think Rice is a little better than Foster, because Foster has had the leagues best Oline over the past two seasons. I don't think any RB however deserves anythin near AP or CJ money.
    One person that Rice isn't clearly better than is Matt Forte, and he's still waiting for his new contract too.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  10. #100
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    I don't see the offense changing much as long as Cam is still around. No way Flacco can carry the load without a good running game. No. Way.
    If you draft Stephen Hill and put him on the opposite side of Torrey Smith, he certainly can. Besides, the Ravens will have a solid rush offense, whether Rice is there or not.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #101
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    In one game he led a pedestrian offensive performance, being the beneficiary of two gift wrapped TD's and in the second game he had a decent game against one of the worse defenses in the league. And lost.
    Wow.

    Gift wrapped TD's?


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  12. #102
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Without question, I am with BcRaven on this one.

    The fault in this discussion is that we are comparing Flacco to other established top quality QBs, not what they were at the same stage in their career as Flacco.

    Flacco is only entering his prime. That is worth a lot, especially on the FA market.

    At this same point in their careers:

    Brady- Spygate (Although he still became a great QB), but did have three SB victories.
    Rodgers- 1 starting season after sitting behind a future hall of famer for three years, along with a one and done in the playoffs. He played a great game, so the loss wasn't completely his fault, but he missed a wide open Greg Jennings for the game winner in OT.
    Brees- Practically run out of San Diego with what everyone thought was a bum shoulder. The only team willing to take a chance on him was the lowly Saints, who were still the 'Aints' at the time.
    Manning (Peyton)- Two losing seasons and two winning seasons. 0-2 in the playoffs, despite some serious offensive weaponry.
    Rivers- Right around what Flacco has done, with a one less playoff victory or so.
    Ben- 1 SB ring
    Eli- Had just won the SB his fourth year, but was heavily criticized up to that point.

    Now, take a look at where they were and tell me why you don't think Flacco can get to where they are now?

    The reality is that if Lee Evans catches that pass, the perception of Flacco is much different. That's not Flacco's fault and front office executives aren't just going to skim over that reality if he hits FA. He has already proven that he can make the throw.

    Get him some better WRs and open up the offense a little more, and he'll need less of the rush offense, although they should never abandon it the way that NE and GB have.

    It hasn't worked here, because for three of his four years, they've been sending possession WRs deep down the field. Torrey Smith is the first legitimate WR to fit the system. Add Stephen Hill to that and you will see Flacco do some things, even with Cam there.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  13. #103
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    As for Ray Rice, his playoff performances haven't been any better than Flacco's playoff performances. The only game where Rice really broke out was against New England in 2009. Otherwise, his playoff games haven't been anywhere near great. So, why does Rice deserve a contract more? They leaned on Rice, because they had a better rush offense than WRs and now everyone can see that. That's not Flacco's fault and when teams shut Rice down in the playoffs, he's stepped up. His WRs have let him down three years straight. The only reason we don't talk about the Indianapolis game is, because Joe did throw two Ints. He was clearly pressing and frustrated. He even got into it with Cam on the sideline. WRs were dropping passes all over the place in that game too, and on 3rd-4th down no less.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  14. #104
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Let Flacco be Flacco.

    He's a damn good QB and is a major reason why this team is headed in the direction that it's headed. Give him more weapons and get Cam to open up the offense and then just sit back and watch it roll.
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  15. #105
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    Re: Flacco Deal Update...

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    In one game he led a pedestrian offensive performance, being the beneficiary of two gift wrapped TD's and in the second game he had a decent game against one of the worse defenses in the league. And lost.
    http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...ters-skate.gif
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