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Thread: Oral Arguments

  1. #49
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    Re: Oral Arguments



    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    So back to Rush who won't buy the insurance, he will be in compliance when he pays the tax. If he doesn't pay that due to the principle of it he will go to jail, same if you don't submit taxes in April.
    That's not true, yet.

    Currently, nothing happens to you if you don't pay the penalty.




  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fanatic View Post
    So therefore, as somebody that pays his taxes and buys health insurance I'm still footing the bill for those that don't anyway, right?

    These people are still getting healthcare if needed at the cost of the tax payer and/or people that buy healthcare insurance because the services provided have to be payed for by somebody.

    Why in the hell would the company I work for provide me health insurance at their cost (partially) if they know I can get insurance another way where they don't have to foot the bill?
    You wouldn't get government subsidized health insurance if you had a job and are making more than 120% (i think that is the number they are using) of the poverty level. Basically they are trying to increase Medicaid to cover those of the 40 million uninsured that can show they can't afford it. The cost of that expenditure is captured via the mandate. This is why the mandate is essential.

    And if you are worried about paying for others health insurance via tax, you are already paying for it when the uninsured seek health care. This was the point of "uniqueness" that kennedy was making yesterday.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk








  3. Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Government subsidies.
    And you're good with this why?


    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Unemployment is the heart of this entire bill. The SG said in court that a certain group of people won't pay anything. They will get free health care.
    So why shouldn't I get free healthcare?
    Because I have a job, pay taxes, etc. I get penalized.


    That's people on well fare and those unemployed. I guess my cousin will
    like it because he's been unemployed for 2 years and is really sick and can't get a job.
    I have them in my family as well.
    I think alot of us do unfortunately.
    One just got out of the hospital a week ago or so.
    I'm sure that bill is quite high that will never get paid by that person.

    Either way, you, I and every other citizen that has a job and health insurance is paying that bill in one way or another.

    So now we want to go ahead and make it so if they wake up one morning with a tummy ache or the shits they can go be seen and treated at the tax payers dollar because they now have the ability to do so at free will.



    The SG was grilled on this so called tax by both sides drawing much
    laughter:


    "General Verrilli, today you are arguing that the penalty is not a tax. Tomorrow you are going to be back and you will be arguing that the penalty is a tax," said Justice Samuel Alito, drawing laughter from spectators in the court. Alito, a 2005 nominee of President George W. Bush, was not the only justice to challenge Verilli's fence straddling. Elena Kagan, nominated by President Obama in 2010, pursued the penalty aspect, asking if people who refuse to purchase insurance would be breaking the law. Verilli replied that if they "pay the tax, then they are in compliance with the law."

    "Why do you keep saying tax?" asked Justice Stephen Bryer, a 1994 Clinton nominee, drawing more laughter
    To not look at this as a tax is absurd!!

    Quite frankly, having people who were appointed to the positions by the ones who want this bill make the decision as to the legality of this is absurd as well.
    Will Die A Ravens Fan!!




  4. #52
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Here's the exact quote from Verilli in court yesterday. There is an elite group that will get free health care, and yes NC, I know it's not yet but will be if this is not struck down. If health care exceeds 8% of your income
    you pay no penalty, nothing, according to this:

    ___________________________________

    For an elite group—including people eligible for Medicaid who don’t sign up for it and people whose health care expenses exceed 8 percent of their income—the Obamacare mandate is no mandate and the penalty is neither a penalty nor a tax because they are not required to pay it, period.


    Under Obamacare, Verrilli conceded, these people can continue to receive free health care care, not sign up for health insurance, not sign up for Medicaid, and not pay a penalty.

    Here's the link:


    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/admi...are-not-pay-it
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-28-2012 at 09:34 AM.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  5. #53
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Imagine that the President is W and the object the Government wants you to buy is a Bible.

    Now you can see just how absurd this law really is.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  6. #54
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    Only if you think a Bible and health insurance are equally important for people to have access to.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  7. #55
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Fanatic said:

    So why shouldn't I get free healthcare?
    Because I have a job, pay taxes, etc. I get penalized.
    __________________________________

    Exactly, and that's the entire problem with it and why the Tea Partiers
    are the ones behind this fight to stop it.

    Nothing is free. You pay for it and so do I on a fixed income no less.
    In fact, we'll be paying much more in a couple of years than we do
    now.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  8. #56
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    I think the mandate get's stuck down. But the law will probably stand. And I think that was the point to begin with. Anyone who has ever been involved in a negotiation knows that you make some ridiculous demand (i.e the mandate) knowing you're not going to get it, but you get people to focus on what you know you're not going to get it so you can get the rest.

    This bill/law without the mandate will probably cost 4 trillion, will make healthcare/health insurance so unaffordable no one buys it, leaving only one option.




  9. #57
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    Only if you think a Bible and health insurance are equally important for people to have access to.
    Exactly. Many folks out there on my side of the fence would say they do.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Exactly. Many folks out there on my side of the fence would say they do.
    There are factual legitimate reasons to have health insurance. Can you tell me what actual physical benefit I get from owning a Bible?
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  11. #59
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    There are factual legitimate reasons to have health insurance. Can you tell me what actual physical benefit I get from owning a Bible?
    That's the point, if you don't want to buy something you shouldn't be forced to. Nor should you have to pay a penalty that pays for someone elses bible.




  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    That's the point, if you don't want to buy something you shouldn't be forced to. Nor should you have to pay a penalty that pays for someone elses bible.
    No, you're still missing my point. A bible has no intrinsic value. Comparing it to health insurance is comparing a need to a luxury. There is a good reason to require people to have insurance, you can argue whether its a good enough reason to make it a law, but there is a good reason. There is no good reason to make everyone buy an old book.
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




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