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Thread: Oral Arguments

  1. #166
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    Re: Oral Arguments



    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    That’s not entirely true. I’ve had times as has my wife where we’ve needed to go to the doctor and not had insurance. She broke her foot and all we had to do was pay for the visit and walking boot etc.

    Matter of fact, recently, even though I had insurance I asked a tech who was doing some work how much things would cost if I paid cash, she said it was 40% less. Main reasons were less paperwork, bureaucracy, no need to pay someone to bill the insurance company fight with the insurance company and then come after the patient for the rest.
    I get you man, I do, but a majority of the population that doesn't have insurance also doesn't have the money (or doesn't want to pay) to cover the costs of the service.

    I haven't really read a whole lot about it because it seems like there is no point if they're going to force everyone to do it anyway, but I feel like insurance should be relevant to the person's health and it should be reflective in the costs. For example, my wife and I rarely get sick. The only time we have needed a doctor in the recent past was when I tore my shoulder. Neither of us smoke, we don't drink much, we're active, we eat a lot of organic foods...

    Just seems to me that insurance for folks like us should have more options that are reflective in the costs than for someone who say has chronic arthritis or is a pack-a-day kind of guy.
    Last edited by wickedsolo; 04-03-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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  2. #167

    Re: Oral Arguments

    It's out of our hands.

    It could go either way. It's interesting, it's exciting, it's important. The funny thing is, it likely all comes down to one man:
    220px-Anthony_Kennedy_official_SCOTUS_portrait.jpg

    Very easy to oversimplify and say X or Y is obviously right and only a fool would disagree. Very easy. The only thing I know for sure is the majority opinion will be scholarly and well supported by precedent. Which way it goes I wouldn't guess.

    The oral arguments are not a spectator sport, where the Justices put on a show for us to deliberately give us clues how they will vote. Heck, we can't even guess what people are thinking when we watch them play *football*, and we're actually as smart as some of those guys.

    Anyway. I think I'm done here.

    Carry on.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  3. #168
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I get you man, I do, but a majority of the population that doesn't have insurance also doesn't have the money (or doesn't want to pay) to cover the costs of the service.
    My main problem with the law is the mandate/penalty there are several other problems I have with it but that's number 1. Like you pointed out earlier if they don't have the money for insurance now how do they pay the fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I haven't really read a whole lot about it because it seems like there is no point if they're going to force everyone to do it anyway
    This is very sad to me. Seriously, are we so used to government overstepping their limits we just give in.

    From the epilogue of "Ameritopia"
    "The essential question is whether, in America, the people’s psychology has been so successfully warped, the individual’s spirit so thoroughly trounced, and the civil society’s institutions so effectively overwhelmed that revival is possible. Have too many among us already surrendered or been conquered? Can the people overcome the constant and relentless influences of ideological indoctrination, economic manipulation, and administrative coerciveness, or have they become hopelessly entangled in and dependent on a ubiquitous federal... "

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    but I feel like insurance should be relevant to the person's health and it should be reflective in the costs. For example, my wife and I rarely get sick. The only time we have needed a doctor in the recent past was when I tore my shoulder. Neither of us smoke, we don't drink much, we're active, we eat a lot of organic foods...
    I agree to a point and most insurance does work that way but you pay them to protect you for things that you don't have the funds for accidents, cancer treatments etc.




  4. #169
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Festus didn't read any of the thread because we said that a long time ago about Kennedy being the swing vote and why and I went into great detail about him and why he was appointed. Several of us including Galen also added Roberts as a swing vote.

    We also mentioned how the commerce clause was important because the mandate had to fall within it to be legal so there is
    a dispute there. Another words, it's the commerce clause that gives the congress the authority to inact the mandate and thus the broccoli example brought up by Roberts. Liberals
    argue that it does while conservatives argue it doesn't and can
    force us to buy anything like, well, broccoli.


    We also said Kennedy left the back door open
    on that point as Verilli got stronger at the end while adamantly sticking to his point and Kennedy seemed satisified with his answer. We also quoted Kennedy as saying this is unique legislation leaving the back door opened once again.

    That said, OBY threatening him because he's not sure is a sure
    way to lose him. Stupid idiot. Somebody like Kagan obviously
    leaked the vote to him and he's so upset. Otherwise, he was be
    happy as a lark and wouldn't say anything.


    Festus missed many other points as NC mentioned.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 04-04-2012 at 04:15 AM.




  5. #170
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    SOLO - You need two things to survive in this world:

    1. good credit
    2. good insurance

    When I was your age I didn't think I needed it. We have another
    poster here who says he is young and he doesn't have it at all and
    hates being forced to buy it.

    But when I was 25 I had unexpected surgury. You never know when you need it so you get it or should even when you're young. I was laid off for a year at 30 and still had a policy thru Metropolitan and paid for it out of my savings. I got Simonella and was in the hospital for 10 days. The bill came to $4700 and MET paid all of it.

    You just never know and if you plan to have children, your wife
    will really need that coverage.

    Just saying - ya know.




  6. #171
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Ha! I wish someone had explained the whole credit thing to me when I was younger because even though I'm only 29 right now, my credit was not something I took seriously until about 2-3 years ago.

    I actually wish that high schools would employ some classwork stuff on credit, money management, etc. When I was in highschool, not THAT long ago, there really were not any classes or instructions or anything regarding credit and how to manage it. It's a shame because a lot of kids really squander good opportunities to solidify their credit early on.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  7. #172
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    Its still a 6-3 uphold of the law.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk








  8. #173

    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    We also mentioned how the commerce clause was important because the mandate had to fall within it to be legal so there is
    a dispute there. Another words, it's the commerce clause that gives the congress the authority to inact the mandate and thus the broccoli example brought up by Roberts. Liberals
    argue that it does while conservatives argue it doesn't and can
    force us to buy anything like, well, broccoli.

    ...

    Festus missed many other points as NC mentioned.
    Just because you didn't understand my posts, AirFlacco, doesn't mean I missed points. I didn't read the thread, true, but I certainly addressed this point about broccoli, which is interesting but the act of repeating yourself doesn't mean I didn't address it.

    I should have resisted & left you on "ignore," and not read this post.

    /shrug.

    What's done is done, my eyes are bleeding and I must fetch the bandages.
    Festivus

    His definitions and arguments were so clear in his own mind that he was unable to understand how any reasonable person could honestly differ with him.




  9. #174
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Next time try read the thread before repeating stuff already said.

    Reading can be difficult Festus.




  10. #175
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Next time try read the thread before repeating stuff already said.

    Reading can be difficult Festus.
    Love thy neighbor Trap.




  11. #176
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    What do you want?

    A mandate that forces the individual to pay for their health insurance OR,

    an unfunded mandate (EMTALA) that forces YOU to pay for the individual to who refuses to cover their own health risk?

    It's about $1000 a year per person for EMTALA while it is about $750 fine for the individual who chooses to exercise their "liberty" by having me cover their health risk.

    Try to be smart folks.








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