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Thread: Oral Arguments

  1. #91
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    Re: Oral Arguments



    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Anyone see the typical liberal ad homenim slant James Carville put on a potential overturn?

    "I think that [an overturn] will be the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic party because health care costs are gonna escalate unbelievably. I really believe that, this is not spin."

    You know what the Democrats are going to say -- and it is completely justified: 'We tried, we did something, go see a 5-4 Supreme Court majority. The public has these guys figured out. Our polls show that half think this whole thing is political."

    “They overturned an election. And just as a professional Democrat, there’s nothing better for me than they overturn this thing 5-4. And then the Republican Party will own this health care system for the foreseeable future. … Go see Scalia when you want health care.”

    http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes...the-democrats/

    Curse the establishment!
    I have to agree that the GOP will own the healthcare mess if this gets over-ruled which I am still not so sure it will be. These 9 will have to go behind close doors and really discuss the implications of their decision from stripping benefits from those who have already received them to being seen as a bench that put the healthcare system into disarray right after putting the election process into disarray. I don't think Roberts is so keen on having this be his legacy.

    One has to go back to the debates between Obama and McCain when they discussed healthcare. McCain was an ardent supporter of the mandate and Obama in the corner of a public option. In the end, Obama and the Democrat-led congress pass a compromise bill with the Republican mandate. Two years later, a conservative SCOTUS is going to rule 5-4 against it? Just think about that for a moment. There is no way health insurance will ever truly be reformed without increasing the pool. Its either a mandate, public option or single payor. Anything short of that isn't worth the effort. If they scrape the mandate, they have to scrape the whole law. The mandate is essential and without it, it folds like a house of cards.

    I have about half a dozen mid-20 year olds in my practice right now only because of this law and being allowed on their parents plan until 26. They will all lose their insurance not to mention the other millions that are also now covered. Sorry guys, you all lose.

    Oral arguments rarely affect the final decision. They went into this process already knowing their positions. Granted, it was a total shocker to listen to Verilli not handle high school debate team tactics. How embarrasing to have to have the liberal side of the court come to his rescue. What did this guy have a panic attack or something? Anyway, I am not sold on this being overturned just yet. Then again, I have faith in people using logic over ideology, which in the past 3 years there has been little to support that idealism. So Boehner will come up with a new plan? What a fucking joke.

    ht_scotus_beer_pong_tk_120328_wmain.jpg
    Last edited by Galen Sevinne; 03-29-2012 at 12:17 AM.








  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Anyone see the typical liberal ad homenim slant James Carville put on a potential overturn?

    "I think that [an overturn] will be the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic party because health care costs are gonna escalate unbelievably. I really believe that, this is not spin."

    You know what the Democrats are going to say -- and it is completely justified: 'We tried, we did something, go see a 5-4 Supreme Court majority. The public has these guys figured out. Our polls show that half think this whole thing is political."

    “They overturned an election. And just as a professional Democrat, there’s nothing better for me than they overturn this thing 5-4. And then the Republican Party will own this health care system for the foreseeable future. … Go see Scalia when you want health care.”

    http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes...the-democrats/

    Curse the establishment!
    Yeah. Read it last night.

    Part of me agrees with him. Take away Obamacare and there is no GOP rally cry going into November.

    I don't see it as a shift in opinion towards the GOP's favor with healthcare policy though. Boehner can't see his way out of a wet paper bag.

    Although the questioning did look promising, there still is a chance this gets upheld. Oral arguments only account for a small portion of the deliberative process. They still have reams of amicus briefs to read over and consider.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  3. #93
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yeah. Read it last night.

    Part of me agrees with him. Take away Obamacare and there is no GOP rally cry going into November.
    I called Rush yesterday on my way to the gym as I heard him talk about Carville, and said I agree with Carville (to an extent) because I do know people who like Obama just disagree with Obamacare. But take a look at the other side of that, if it is declared constitutional, people will be PISSED, it will be 2010 all over again.




  4. #94
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I have to agree that the GOP will own the healthcare mess if this gets over-ruled which I am still not so sure it will be. These 9 will have to go behind close doors and really discuss the implications of their decision from stripping benefits from those who have already received them to being seen as a bench that put the healthcare system into disarray right after putting the election process into disarray. I don't think Roberts is so keen on having this be his legacy.
    You may be right about that, if the court does it's job, it will only think about the constitutionality of this and not how they will be viewed. If they do think about how they will be viewed in the public eye, then they would deem it unconstitutional since the overwhelming majority see it that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    One has to go back to the debates between Obama and McCain when they discussed healthcare. McCain was an ardent supporter of the mandate and Obama in the corner of a public option. In the end, Obama and the Democrat-led congress pass a compromise bill with the Republican mandate. Two years later, a conservative SCOTUS is going to rule 5-4 against it? Just think about that for a moment. There is no way health insurance will ever truly be reformed without increasing the pool. Its either a mandate, public option or single payor. Anything short of that isn't worth the effort. If they scrape the mandate, they have to scrape the whole law. The mandate is essential and without it, it folds like a house of cards.
    Comprise? with whom? there wasn't a single republican vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I have about half a dozen mid-20 year olds in my practice right now only because of this law and being allowed on their parents plan until 26. They will all lose their insurance not to mention the other millions that are also now covered. Sorry guys, you all lose.
    While that will suck, what the hell ever happened to being personally responsible? I mean I had my own health insurance starting when I was 20. Why can't people go out and get their own if they need it. Or, G, you could lower your rate for these people

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Oral arguments rarely affect the final decision. They went into this process already knowing their positions. Granted, it was a total shocker to listen to Verilli not handle high school debate team tactics. How embarrasing to have to have the liberal side of the court come to his rescue. What did this guy have a panic attack or something? Anyway, I am not sold on this being overturned just yet. Then again, I have faith in people using logic over ideology, which in the past 3 years there has been little to support that idealism.
    So you do expect it to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    So Boehner will come up with a new plan? What a fucking joke.
    Stop joking, this guy has no balls, someone could come up with some reforms but not him.




  5. #95
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Yeah. Read it last night.

    Part of me agrees with him. Take away Obamacare and there is no GOP rally cry going into November.
    Also, while Kennedy grilled the SG, in the end he left an opening that it is a
    unique case so he could still vote for it but how can anyone vote for something
    when they didn't even read it. They don't know what's in it other than the
    mandate. Only a few if any of the congressmen read the 2,700 pages. Kennedy
    seemed emphatic about not reading it but as HR always says, you never know.

    Here's a scenario that OBY sabatoged this entire case before the supremes for
    reasons mentioned above. GOP doesn't have anything to galvanize its base
    vs. The boogie man is gone. OBY can win and then appoint some more justices
    to his favor.

    Also, why was he in favor of pushing for the case to be heard now and a decision soon instead of after the election. If he loses before the election, it's disastrous or is it. Again, nothing for GOPs to be angry about and the conservatives stay
    home again because Romney is a liberal and a Mormon.


    As I said for months, he was worried about losing before the SC so maybe in the end he wanted to lose it while looking at the really big picture. He's ahead of Romney in the polls now from anywhere between
    a couple to double digit points. With gas prices trippling since he came to
    office, with 15M people still unemployed and another 15M working part time,
    he is ahead of Romney in the worse economy in 80 years. Nothing he has
    done has worked but he's still ahead. He has nothing to lose by sabatoging
    his own master piece. OBY is a genius in winning an election.


    That said, as pointed out on TV, this court has always voted for GOP in the
    critical cases like Bush v Gore but not so critical ones.

    It's interesting to note when Souter retired he knew this was coming up and
    ensured that the GOPs would still be in majority if he left and the ones on
    the bench said they would be even though he voted for Gore and Ws father
    appointed him to the bench.

    So who knows. Check out these scenarios.


    http://genehoyas.com/does-obama-want...e-struck-down/
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-29-2012 at 09:17 AM.




  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    what the hell ever happened to being personally responsible?
    Uhhh...that would be the intention of the mandate and the primary reason conservatives came up with the idea. Once Obama adopted the responsibility-enforcing mandate, it became liberty-stripping big government. Nice spin job by the GOP so now we will go back to people not having insurance but continuing to use the health system at your and my cost. But hey, at least Rush will be happy.


    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk








  7. #97
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Once again Galen is wrong on facts. OBUMMER CARE has risen in cost by $1.8T
    just since it was enacted so the costs are sky rocketing vs us.

    Costs for us were cheaper long before anyone heard of OBUMMER.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-29-2012 at 10:23 AM.




  8. #98
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I called Rush yesterday on my way to the gym as I heard him talk about Carville, and said I agree with Carville (to an extent) because I do know people who like Obama just disagree with Obamacare. But take a look at the other side of that, if it is declared constitutional, people will be PISSED, it will be 2010 all over again.
    Agreed.

    And I don't buy into the hyperbole that this law getting tossed out will put us in disarray as a nation. It will but the Democrat party in disarray sure, but the American public, who overwhelmingly want this law killed, will almost immediately demand that a new bill be brought forward.

    The system IS flawed. I don't think anyone here, left or right, would argue that point. The majority of the folks in the country want to see action but done in the light of day and not with a constitutionally questionable mandate that gets forced down our throats.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #99
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Uhhh...that would be the intention of the mandate and the primary reason conservatives came up with the idea. Once Obama adopted the responsibility-enforcing mandate, it became liberty-stripping big government. Nice spin job by the GOP so now we will go back to people not having insurance but continuing to use the health system at your and my cost. But hey, at least Rush will be happy.


    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    So the mandate was enacted to force people to buy insurance but these people are losing their insurance cause they can't stay on their parents...


    That doesn't sound personally responsible to me.

    One other thing Galen, when it was a conservative idea, what did you think of it?




  10. #100
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Flawed as it is, it's still the best system in the world.

    Just ask Greece. You can also ask the Canadians. Those across
    the border keep coming down here cause they can't get into
    hospitals up there. Hospitals along the US border have special
    deals to lure Canadiens.

    The guy in this pic wouldn't be alive w/o the care he got for his
    heart in the US. Now the Candian gov't paid for his $38,000 US bill
    but the gov't doesn't have the money to build hospitals so they sent him
    here.



    http://www.freep.com/article/2009082...et-health-care



    O BUMMER - THE GREAT DIVIDER
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-29-2012 at 10:36 AM.




  11. #101
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by AirFlacco View Post
    Flawed as it is, it's still the best system in the world.

    Just ask Greece. You can also ask the Canadians. Those across
    the border keep coming down here cause they can't get into
    hospitals up there. Hospitals along the US border have special
    deals to lure Canadiens that have socialized medicine like
    OBUMMER CARE.

    The guy in this pic wouldn't be alive w/o the care he got for his
    heart in the US.


    http://www.freep.com/article/2009082...et-health-care
    I worked for a company that had offices in Canada and as a result we'd have people go up there to work and vice versa. Anyone I talked to about that healthcare system hated it, unless they never used it, than it was "hey it's great it's free healthcare". So when you ask anyone whose used it or knows someone who tries (And waits for ever) they hate it. Anyone who has neither is oblivious but likes that it's free.




  12. #102
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    My wife was in the Peace Corp prior to law school. She lived all over Europe for the better part of 3 years. She has not said one good word about the healthcare she received while over there.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  13. #103
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Day 3 about medicare expansion:
    http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arg...rgument=11-400

    Kagan is out of control!




  14. #104
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    This is too funny, SO tell me Galen is the "inherent difference between a progressive and a conservative thinker" having someone else do the thinking for you?

    From Galen:
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    One has to go back to the debates between Obama and McCain when they discussed healthcare. McCain was an ardent supporter of the mandate and Obama in the corner of a public option. In the end, Obama and the Democrat-led congress pass a compromise bill with the Republican mandate. Two years later, a conservative SCOTUS is going to rule 5-4 against it? Just think about that for a moment. There is no way health insurance will ever truly be reformed without increasing the pool. Its either a mandate, public option or single payor. Anything short of that isn't worth the effort. If they scrape the mandate, they have to scrape the whole law. The mandate is essential and without it, it folds like a house of cards.
    From the Obama admin:
    The Obama administration is now referring to Obamacare as a “bi-partisan bill” and calling the unpopular individual mandate “a Republican idea,” following three days of tough questioning by the Supreme Court.
    From Galen:
    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Uhhh...that would be the intention of the mandate and the primary reason conservatives came up with the idea. Once Obama adopted the responsibility-enforcing mandate, it became liberty-stripping big government. Nice spin job by the GOP so now we will go back to people not having insurance but continuing to use the health system at your and my cost. But hey, at least Rush will be happy.

    From the Obama admin
    He also referred to the individual mandate as the “individual responsibility”clause of the bill, in an attempt to distance the administration from the term individual mandate.


    http://freebeacon.com/white-house-tr...brand-mandate/




  15. #105
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    Re: Oral Arguments

    Galen gets his talking points right from the White House web site?!?!?!

    That's too effing funny.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




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