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  1. #16
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano



    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I don't think you understand how insurance companies view insurance costs. Have you wondered why insurance companies aren't out complaining about their "liberties" being trampled like the low-information conservatives are being encouraged to think? Its an odd phenomenon huh? One would think that if such an idea like "Obama ramming this down the throats of the insurance companies" was real then the insurance companies would be lobbying against and you would hear more than rating whores like Rush making his comments.
    Which is why BHO's compromise of “fine you don’t have to provide these plans, but the insurance providers must provide it for free” is hilarious, the plans are still being paid for, and as a result of the insurance companies offering more services we both know they’ll just raise their rates, so the religious org’s are still paying for it. It kinda reminds me of people who say their against hunting as their eating a hamburger, animals are still being killed, just not directly by you…

    The majority of states have insurance mandates for contraceptive coverage which only further demonstrates THAT insurance companies WANT to cover contraception.
    You hit the nail on the head, this is a STATE issue. The Federal Government (HHS) stepping in and telling all organizations in separate stats is wrong. Than the POTUS telling private companies what they have to offer is even worse. Tell me Galen, where does the President have the power to do that?

    That's rhetorical btw.

    Answer this though, if it was "W" would you be okay with him unilaterally telling anybody anything... I don't think so...

    So women like the policy and insurance companies like the policy. Obama's favorability with women has grown by 10% over this "debate" so you guys can listen to Rush all you want but he is taking you down a losing road. After all it was Rush that just this week in amoment of apparent frustration let this gem out about how he has made his money,
    Which was the point of this whole charade. Obama was polling miserably with women prior to this whole thing. Since the nations view on abortion has shifted, they need a controversy to get the woman vote. Knowing some would move to protect religious freedom, they used Republicans (and a few Dem's) trying to overturn the mandate as "hey look these people are against contraception". Sad this is what it takes to get people to elect you, but the useful idiots fall for that stuff.

    Obama needs the woman and hispanic vote and he just spent a week working on the woman vote and Republicans fell hook, line and sinker for it. Next up Hispanic vote. The guy is brilliant.
    Thank you for admitting our President uses race, gender and class to divide the country so he can get elected. And what is so sad about this is you applaud this as brilliance. How truly pathetic.




  2. #17
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Of course anywhere from 65% to 98% of women in favor of contraception depending on what poll you read demonstrates how pro-contraceptive coverage women are but hey, why listen to those sluts right?
    I'm surprised by this number. You'd figure 100% would want something for free.

    Your point that it is good business for insurance companies to provide contraception vs paying for birth related procedures makes sense. For that matter, contraception and protection make sense to most of us, but not to the Catholic Church. If they choose to stick with their doctrine and not follow best business practices, that is their choice and the Fed should not interfere.

    NC Raven pointed out that it is really a state issue which is another reason for the Fed to stay out, and Fanatic is correct that sex is a choice, not a treatable illness; so again, even if it's bad business in the long run, why can't an insurance company refuse to cover contraception?




  3. #18
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    LOL - Now Maher is defending Rush telling the libs they look bad for not
    accepting Rush's apology. He apologized so let it be, said Maher.

    What's going on here? After telling Rush he had not sponsors which is true,
    HBO does have subscribers. Could they be losing them?

    Somebody is putting pressure on Maher.



    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...ooking-bad-not




  4. #19
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by JStruds View Post
    I'm surprised by this number. You'd figure 100% would want something for free.

    Your point that it is good business for insurance companies to provide contraception vs paying for birth related procedures makes sense. For that matter, contraception and protection make sense to most of us, but not to the Catholic Church. If they choose to stick with their doctrine and not follow best business practices, that is their choice and the Fed should not interfere.
    The "Fed" isn't interfering.

    Why can't an insurance company refuse to cover contraception?
    I don't know...why can't a grocery store refuse to not refrigerate its meat? Maybe because its unhealthy AND it would be bad business practice. So why would they? Sometimes simple common sense wins over these misguided liberty arguments.








  5. #20
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    The "Fed" isn't interfering.
    You know he meant the Federal government not "The Fed". But yes the "Federal Governments is interfering...

    I don't know...why can't a grocery store refuse to not refrigerate its meat? Maybe because its unhealthy AND it would be bad business practice. So why would they? Sometimes simple common sense wins over these misguided liberty arguments.
    False equivalency.

    I love how you try to mock liberty and freedom etc. as it's something to be embarrassed to be for.




  6. #21
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    He watches Maher who mocked the constitution as mentioned above.

    TODAY'S LIBERALS ARE THE COMMIES OF 1916.


    OBAMA KILLED OSAMA.




  7. #22
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    The "Fed" isn't interfering.

    You're a bright guy. Being intentionally obtuse does not match your usual standards.

    I don't know...why can't a grocery store refuse to not refrigerate its meat? Maybe because its unhealthy AND it would be bad business practice. So why would they? Sometimes simple common sense wins over these misguided liberty arguments.
    You cannot legislate common sense. If the Catholic Church wants to influence bad business decisions based on their doctrine, that is their problem and the Federal Government should not be involved.




  8. #23
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by JStruds View Post
    You cannot legislate common sense. If the Catholic Church wants to influence bad business decisions based on their doctrine, that is their problem and the Federal Government should not be involved.


    You should read this comment again, You cannot legislate common sense. If you can't legislate common sense what is it that you legislate?

    The only people in opposition of this are several Catholic Bishops and extremely conservative white males and that is it. No one else! Insurance companies aren't complaining, Catholic women aren't complaining as aren't the rest of the 80% of the nation that could care less about who DECIDES on their own through their OWN sense of liberty and responsibility to take contraception or not. Even most of the GOP congressional leaders are silent on it because they know it makes sense and is a losing issue for them.








  9. #24
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    The only people in opposition of this are several Catholic Bishops and extremely conservative white males and that is it. No one else! Insurance companies aren't complaining, Catholic women aren't complaining as aren't the rest of the 80% of the nation that could care less about who DECIDES on their own through their OWN sense of liberty and responsibility to take contraception or not. Even most of the GOP congressional leaders are silent on it because they know it makes sense and is a losing issue for them.
    You are missing the point by such a wide margin I don't know why I keep trying to point out. It's not whether people are for against it, it's not the role of the Federal government to get involved in State matters!




  10. #25
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    You are missing the point by such a wide margin I don't know why I keep trying to point out. It's not whether people are for against it, it's not the role of the Federal government to get involved in State matters!
    First of all there are those of us that think bigger than rigid ideology. I get it that you don't but the reason you think I am mssing it by such a wide margin is because I think differently that you. I think in common sense, I think in consensus views and I think in a utilitarian manner. I get it that you look at the world through a very narrow lens. I don't. You have that liberty.

    Secondly, if you are paying attention, you will notice that is IS NOT a states issue. Most now agree that A.C.A. and its mandates will pass any SCOTUS test and again, if you really pay attention, you will have read that even Mitch McConell wants to stop the repeal talk as it is a losing issue for the GOP.








  11. #26
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    I think in common sense, I think in consensus views and I think in a utilitarian manner. I get it that you look at the world through a very narrow lens. I don't.
    The nobility of that statement of course vanishes with a simple realization: The scope of your "lens" may be wide, but it is fixated so far left that you are inhibited from seeing the full spectrum of reality. All your common sense and utilitarian insight is only applicable when your left filter is applied to reality. The only possible way to consider your views as consensus is if you define consensus as those who agree with you.


    See: Dunning-Kruger effect
    “Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.”

    –Eleanor Roosevelt




  12. #27
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    First of all there are those of us that think bigger than rigid ideology.
    The constitution isn't an ideology.

    From James Madison Federalist paper 45:
    "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

    Let me ask a serious question, I know I won't get an honest answer but I'll ask anyway. What if you didn't agree with the policy handed down, would it still be okay?




  13. #28
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    The nobility of that statement of course vanishes with a simple realization: The scope of your "lens" may be wide, but it is fixated so far left that you are inhibited from seeing the full spectrum of reality. All your common sense and utilitarian insight is only applicable when your left filter is applied to reality. The only possible way to consider your views as consensus is if you define consensus as those who agree with you.


    See: Dunning-Kruger effect
    You want to make a case that the majority of people in this nation (consensus) are against mandating insurance companies to provide for birth control pills? You want to make the case that the majority of women in this nation (consensus) are against mandating insurance companies providing birth control pills? Go ahead, I'm all ears. Shit, I'll wait to see if you can even make a case that the majority of Catholics are against the mandate. The fact that you try to frame my consensus view as far left or only agreeing with me is a textbook example of Dunning-Kruger on your part... since you are so indiscriminately throwing the term around.

    My careful inclusion of there also needing to be a utilitarian quality to an idea that garners a consensus view for the idea to have merit actually further removes my personal opinon from of the equation and further negates your D-K comment. There are ideas that I don't believe have merit that have a consensus view but lack a utilitarian standard. Sure a utilitarian standard is mostly subjective but in this case, I would also challenge you to make a case that birth control availablilty via government mandate harms more individuals than it helps.

    Measuring the consensus nature of a view is fairly absolute while assessing the utilitarian value of an idea blends in some subjectivity. It is an active way of measuring the value of an idea combining both the unselfish approach of what is best for the most vs. just me AND an unselfish approach to what do most people believe vs. what do I believe. If one can make a case for both variables, consensus and utilitarian, than how do you dismiss the idea?








  14. #29
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    The constitution isn't an ideology.

    From James Madison Federalist paper 45:
    "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."

    Let me ask a serious question, I know I won't get an honest answer but I'll ask anyway. What if you didn't agree with the policy handed down, would it still be okay?
    No the constitution isn't ideology but believing that one needs to filter their worldview through it all the time is highly ideological. Its the same as people using the bible to figure out how to think about something. You are allowed to think for yourself. Its rather ironic that you being the defender of liberty lacks the desire or initiative to think for yourself. I don't doubt that the constitution is one of the greatest documents in the history of man but I am not beholden to it in any fashion that would prevent me from thinking about a solution to a problem in a novel and active manner. Of course that is an inherent difference between a progressive and a conservative thinker.

    If you are so certain that you won't get an honest answer from a question, why would you ask it?








  15. #30
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    Re: OBY played Fluke and Rush like a piano

    Because he was hoping.

    NC is the real thinker because he's questions OBYs total disregard for that
    how did you put it, the greatest document and forcing illegal changes to
    it like OBUMMER CARE plus many other issues like contraceptions and
    freedom of speech.

    OBYs most recent communist activity is to sicc IRS on hundreds of
    Tea Party officials because they were free thinkers that took action and
    mobilized - legally - vs the administraiton. Over 80 groups tied to the
    Tea Party has been targeted. Members say the audits have questions
    that are legit and many that are just plain onery.

    http://24hourpatriots.com/profiles/b...rty-witch-hunt



    He is now harrassing them but OBY isn't the first liberal to do this. JFK
    got even with Nixon for not telling him about Track 2, ie, the plan to
    kill Castro which Nixon ran as VP in the same basement office Oliver North ran the Contra Affair, so when the attempts were made to kill him and Kennedy didn't even know what was going on he sent the IRS after Nixon's mother who was seriously ill in the hospital. JFK even interviewed IRS appointees to
    ensure their loyalty.

    BTW, Oliver Stone's movie, JFK, had a line about this very topic so the
    movie did get at least one thing right about him as a book was written
    about it. Another fact is that Nixon was in Dallas two days before the
    assassination. He attended a meeting with the head of PePsi as part of
    that prestigious NY law firm. H Bush was in Dallas the same week also
    but of course they wouldn't have anything to do with it would they-lol?

    http://www.wnd.com/2003/09/20617/

    Anyway this is tyranny and what liberal commies do. Fortunately for the elder Mrs Nixon, her son worked for the most prestigious law firm in NY and got her off but not w/o a lot of aggravation.
    Last edited by AirFlacco; 03-09-2012 at 03:54 AM.




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