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  1. #13
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    Except it's not about forcing religions to do anything. It's about requiring all employers to provide equal levels of insurance coverage.

    If all those good Catholic employees don't want to use BC, they don't have to, but it's absolutely ludicrous that the non-Catholic employees at things like hospitals or charities or schools staff can't get access to basic medical contraceptives.


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    I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.369061,-76.761205
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  2. #14
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    If Church's don't want to provide something that all employers are required to provide, then maybe they should get out of the hospital and school business.


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    I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.369076,-76.761183
    My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron




  3. #15
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot View Post
    If Church's don't want to provide something that all employers are required to provide, then maybe they should get out of the hospital and school business.


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    I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.369076,-76.761183
    This is exactly my point. You're so used to the Government being able to tell PRIVATE organizations what to do regardless if they are a religious organization or not that it's okay to you.

    They should not even be able to tell ANY business what they have to offer their employees.

    These are faith based organizations, many provide services with donations from their members or from the church's. As the article said if the Catholic church is going to be forced to provide contraception (and I believe things like the morning after pill) then they will just shut down.




  4. #16
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    When did you put me on ignore?

    I showed how outrageous the priests were and their attempt to mobilize their members. Its
    about the gov't forcing them to buy condoms for their employees under OBAMA CARE and
    I showed how the gov't, Prez, was considering their concerns.
    UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU.




  5. #17
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Oh no! the big scary government is telling us what to do!

    But wait:

    Catholics are more likely than Americans in general (52 to 49 percent) to say that religiously affiliated employers should have to provide contraception coverage, according to the PRRI survey.

    huh? Dang those Catholics polling in favor of a full plate of options from which to choose! So they can...uh...make their own choice? Like...use birth control or not use birth control? But shouldn't we not let them have access to birth control because then we aren't forcing something on them? Huh? Wait how'd that happen?

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012...contraception/

    Well whatever G.... us conservatives don't believe in killing spermies because god will frown down upon us! And don't force your liberal options and choices on us. We want clear mandates from the church about what we can and can't do! That's liberty!


    "I think this week’s outrage over the Komen decision should be a warning to the Republican party about how quickly there was a mass outrage over further and further attacks on general women’s health,” Kellie Ferguson, executive director of Republican Majority for choice, told me Wednesday. “You could see the same backlash on attacks on contraception.”

    Ferguson calls the Republican rhetoric on contraception “crossing the line” — taking the discussion away from choice issues (where Republicans can find some broader, if still national minority constituency) and into the realm of the fringy extreme.


    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...er.php?ref=fpa

    Whatever G...she ain't no real conservative. She can't be. If she was, she would be letting her misogynist promise keeping husband make those choices for her. She probably went up to the university and learned all that liberal stuff about women equality and what not. She probably wears no bra and wants to be raped so she can have illegitimate kids and live the easy life on the dole. Its all a liberal conspiracy man to get votes.








  6. #18
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Galen, what is the point of your ridiculous post?

    A poll of Catholics should allow the government to do something unconstitutional?




  7. #19
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Galen, what is the point of your ridiculous post?

    A poll of Catholics should allow the government to do something unconstitutional?

    Seems like they are asking for it so I am all for giving it to them. Its your opinion that it is unconstituional. The Catholic church keeps protesting that their congregations are somehow deeply disturbed about this when the truth is the majority support it. Did you know that 82% of all women between the ages of 15 and 44 have used the pill? 82%. The pill has has had been a huge success in that it has promoted both social and health advancement, in countries that have access to it as well as prosperity. I doubt you have spent much time in countries where conttraception in unavailable but if you did you would see how uncontrolled population growth denies cultures the ability to get ahead in many instances. Even here in the U.S., groups of people unable to obtain consistent birth fall quickly behind. Your earlier post about the woman with many kids "demanding" services is a perfect example but I guess you fail to see the connection nor the social ramifications.

    I ensure you that the wealthy Catholics are taking care of their young daughters adequately.

    This isn't as much a constitutional issue as much as it is an artifact from our religious past which we have outgrowm with a better understanding of what makes a society successful. This is also an issue of women's health choices as well as conservative lack of regard for the lower class which would otherwise be unable to afford birth control. There are a majority of people working in Catholic affliated schools, hosptals and social service agencies that want this as as a benefit option. Those who don't can simply choose not to exercise it.

    My final point. If you have a daughter. What are your plans when she is 16? and has a boyfriend? You have fundamentally three choices;

    1. Do nothing other than tell her to not have sex.

    2. Exercise your health benefit plan and procure the contrceptive of your choice and use it as you choose.

    3. Realize your daughter is sexually active and either hope the boy uses a condom (yeah right) or purchase the pill yourself at a couple hundred dollars a month for the next 5+ years.

    You want to deny regular people like myself who might someday work for a Catholic social service agency - doubtful but who knows - the option of a health benefit because you have some personal morality issue with it. Feel free to exercise yuor morality while I exercise mine.

    To hold up the constitution over what makes sense is not even worth arguing for me. Just answer what your plans are for your 16 year old daugther who by then resents you dragging her to church every weekend and forcing her to hold your biblical views. I have seen plenty of these girls in my practice and it is not a pretty sight. It could happen to any of us at any time and the pill might be what allows a lot of girls to mature to a point where they are less likely to act out and more likely to make better personal decisions.

    Obama has masterfully set up another intra-GOP ideological battle. Should be fun to watch.








  8. #20
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    To hold up the constitution over what makes sense is not even worth arguing for me
    Nothing further need be said.




  9. #21
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Nothing further need be said.
    Exactly, because outside of very rigid and orthodox worldviews, you lack any flexibility in thought. Otherwise know as "conservative".

    "The bible says it" and/or "The consitution says it" so it must be. Its just hard to imagine living within such tight parameters.








  10. #22
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Galen if you want to discuss the other topics of your post, start another thread I'd be happy to talk about them.

    As for this thread, I started this to talk about how it is unconstitutional for the Government to mandate a religious organization provide something that directly goes against their beliefs (no matter how outdated they may be).

    I know everything with you is the ends justify the means and the hell with the Constitution except when it helps you protect your cause. The Constitution was written to say what the Government can't do to us. And numero uno is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

    Telling them that they have to offer plans that cover contraception which I am almost certain includes the morning after pill is a violation of the 1st amendment. And that's not, just, like.. my opinion man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    To hold up the constitution over what makes sense is not even worth arguing for me. Just answer what your plans are for your 16 year old daughter who by then resents you dragging her to church every weekend and forcing her to hold your biblical views. I have seen plenty of these girls in my practice and it is not a pretty sight.
    Like I said we can start another thread to talk about this. But I will address some things in this. I haven't gone to church in about 17 years (other than weddings and funerals of course) which I've told you before, but I know that doesn't fit with your view of what every conservative or non statist is..

    When my daughter is old enough, I'll ask my her, if she wants to go great, because many, many studies show that girls who go to church are a lot less likely to have premarital sex, do drugs, drop out of school, get divorced etc.

    Now I can't speak for the individual girls you have coming in to your office, but if they have shitty dads or parents church won't help them. Church can provide guidance but it won't replace or make up for bad parenting.
    Last edited by NCRAVEN; 02-08-2012 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Spelling




  11. #23
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen Sevinne View Post
    Exactly, because outside of very rigid and orthodox worldviews, you lack any flexibility in thought. Otherwise know as "conservative".

    "The bible says it" and/or "The consitution says it" so it must be. Its just hard to imagine living within such tight parameters.
    This is HILARIOUS. I hope you see the irony of telling me how rigid my views are but then say all conservatives think the same




  12. #24
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    Re: HHS Says Religious-Affiliated Organizations Must Cover Contraception

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    This is HILARIOUS. I hope you see the irony of telling me how rigid my views are but then say all conservatives think the same
    Actually I don't so feel free to fill me in.

    Birth control is a serious issue in this world for the reasons I mentioned earlier. When faced with the current conflict in how to use it you resort to a publication to see how to exercise your thought:

    "ok lets see...let's look the constitution and that will tell me how to think through this difficult issue...ah here is the quote, I therefore now know how to act". No need to really think through the issue on its own merit but only to see it in very black and white terms; is it constitutional or not? Constitutional = good. unconstitutional = bad. That is your only paradigm of thought on this issue that deserves so much more.

    That is the epitome of rigidity and it is how every conservative who is arguing against this mandate is addressing it. Strictly as a constitutional problem. Not a problem in society or a problem for girls or a problem for the poor but strictly based on what a doctrine tells you. You are not thinking...you are only obeying.

    Liberals are activists in thought. We don't rely on the bible to tell us what to do nor to a strong degree the constitution. Life isn't an if-then statement. Its highly ambiguous for which the conservative mind has little tolerance. You need a predetermined outcome for everything or else your structures fall apart. "wait, I can't find the answer in the book, it must be here...what do I do now"?

    No one is telling a church to purchase birth control..you do understand that right?








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