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  1. #91

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...



    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    I think he'll fall just like Jimmy Smith did.




  2. #92

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    With the Ravens, they do their homework, they go the extra mile when it comes to character. That is why they drafted Jimmy Smith, and its proving to be a good decision.

    They wont draft a guy unless they feel comfortable with him. That we know for sure.

    Fact is, the only team's that need a MLB are Philly, and the Jets. If he gets past either of those teams, he will most likely fall to us. NY was another team that need a LB but they are in the Superbowl.


    Again i keep saying for Hightower, and Burfict. The combine will either make, or Lose money for them. They could go anywhere from 15, to the 2nd round. Guys like that the combine is where they make their mark. If Burfict has a good combine, trust me, no way he makes it to us. I cant say the same for Hightower, but i promise you this, if Hightower runs a 4.6 or less, he wont make it into the 2nd round.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  3. #93

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I'm not arguing that he is a good player.

    The question was more along the lines of why the value of MLB has dropped in the last couple of years. Timmons was picked 15th overall...10 spots above Jon Beason and several spots/rounds above Poz, Harris, and Bishop. If a team who needs multiple things is starting at a MLB with a top 20 pick do they take him? Is he really worth a top 20 pick? History has shown that you can get starting quality MLB's from round 2 on and they are A LOT cheaper to sign and carry a fraction of the expectation weight that 1st round picks do.

    If you go to any Steeler board you will find multiple folks who don't think Timmons is worth the 15th overall pick that he was taken at.
    I'll just say I disagree...I think he was worth that spot and is by far the most underrated player on that Steeler defense. I don't think Boz or Bishop are in his league as a player.

    As far as what you're saying about value, well, I agree. I'd also say though that you could probably do the same study about most positions that aren't OL or DT. So really, it's just a matter of what the scouts see...and we have some of the best there are. If they don't want to roll the dice on a first round ILB, I'm ok with that, but I really think getting one early this year is important...especially if McClain leaves as a UFA.




  4. #94

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by BleedPurple92 View Post
    .

    Fact is, the only team's that need a MLB are Philly, and the Jets. If he gets past either of those teams, he will most likely fall to us. NY was another team that need a LB but they are in the Superbowl.


    Again i keep saying for Hightower, and Burfict. The combine will either make, or Lose money for them. They could go anywhere from 15, to the 2nd round. Guys like that the combine is where they make their mark. If Burfict has a good combine, trust me, no way he makes it to us. I cant say the same for Hightower, but i promise you this, if Hightower runs a 4.6 or less, he wont make it into the 2nd round.
    True and I think you can take Philly off as they never have and never will value the LB position. Look for them to take another offensive lineman.

    As for Hightower, no way he runs a 4.6 or lower.

    He likely will run around a 4.8 or high 4.7.




  5. #95

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    My point is that if he is a great prospect he's not falling to 29. We all know he has a lot of talent so it's going to have to be other things that cause him to fall. I don't think anyone can assume that issues that matter to other GMs don't matter to Ozzie.

    The issue is risk. How much risk, guaranteed money, are you willing to assume for the player? When you have a high level prospect the less risk the higher he's going to go. That's why Dez Bryant went to the bottom of the draft but Julio Jones who had a broken foot was worth trading half a draft to get.

    Which case does Burifict fall into? If he's Bryant are the Ravens willing to risk 1st round money? If he's Jones there is no way he falls to 29.
    Could you, or could you not, say the exact same thing heading into their respective drafts about Jimmy Smith, and to a lesser extend (and different reasons) Michael Oher?

    It's very possible he's there at 29 and Ozzie feels comfortable taking him there. I would not dismiss it at all.




  6. #96

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    I think Ozzie looks to trade down this year. I could see him moving back into the mid 30s , and targeting one of the ILBs or Cs who slips a bit, and taking the extra pick. Fact is, our biggest needs are ILB, S, C imo. Those are three positions that are often underrated in the draft because they aren't "sexy."

    It's still BPA of course but I think he looks to move down ala 2010.




  7. #97

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    True and I think you can take Philly off as they never have and never will value the LB position. Look for them to take another offensive lineman.

    As for Hightower, no way he runs a 4.6 or lower.

    He likely will run around a 4.8 or high 4.7.
    I honestly think hightower could pull off a 4.6 lol.

    He isn't an athletic slouch, for some reason people have the notion that he's stiff. He can run man. I'm gonna enjoy the combine, so many players i'm curious to see what they run.

    Alshon Jeffery, if he runs a sub 4.5.... Wow that clinches a top 20 pick. I mean the dude's 230 pounds, and 6'4.

    Micheal Floyd-Another guy who's 40 time will be interesting to watch.

    Ofcourse Burfict/Hightower
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  8. #98

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    I think Ozzie looks to trade down this year. I could see him moving back into the mid 30s , and targeting one of the ILBs or Cs who slips a bit, and taking the extra pick. Fact is, our biggest needs are ILB, S, C imo. Those are three positions that are often underrated in the draft because they aren't "sexy."

    It's still BPA of course but I think he looks to move down ala 2010.
    Ozzie's never really followed a pure BPA. He's always had an element of Need in his picks. It could be BPA, but it's a position that we could have a need at in a year or two. Like how he drafted Ray Rice, pretty sure he knew he wasn't gonna keep Willis around with that big contract.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  9. #99
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    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    Could you, or could you not, say the exact same thing heading into their respective drafts about Jimmy Smith, and to a lesser extend (and different reasons) Michael Oher?

    It's very possible he's there at 29 and Ozzie feels comfortable taking him there. I would not dismiss it at all.
    Jimmy Smith had problems as a freshman. He proved over many years without issues that those weren't problems.

    The issue with Oher was his height and his short arms. A lot of scouts felt he was a Guard in the NFL and not a Tackle.

    Neither was considered to be the best prospect in years at their position like I keep hearing about Burfict. If Burfict is that great he's going top 10 and will be the first player at his position taken. If he isn't then it's because teams are worried about his maturity.

    I'm trying to argue for or against taking him. What I am trying to argue is that at this point I don't see him ending up on the Ravens.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  10. Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    I could run a 4.6 at 240 in HS. I think Hightower can. Dude is cut up. Burfict is very explosive though. It is going to come down to the mental part of the game, they are both fantastic athletes. Burfict has quickness, but Hightower is massive. I like them both, but trust the ravens scouts to properly rank them based on the stuff that does not always show up on tape. Hightower does sound like a very bright guy in the interviews I saw.







  11. #101

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Jimmy Smith had problems as a freshman. He proved over many years without issues that those weren't problems.

    The issue with Oher was his height and his short arms. A lot of scouts felt he was a Guard in the NFL and not a Tackle.

    Neither was considered to be the best prospect in years at their position like I keep hearing about Burfict. If Burfict is that great he's going top 10 and will be the first player at his position taken. If he isn't then it's because teams are worried about his maturity.

    I'm trying to argue for or against taking him. What I am trying to argue is that at this point I don't see him ending up on the Ravens.


    I'm not saying the questions surrounding them are the same, for Smith it was off the field issues, and for Oher it was alot more about his intellectual abilities than his short arms, but they both fell to the Ravens for reasons that didn't have to do w their talent. And Ozzie wasn't scared to pull the trigger when they did. The same thing could happen w Burfict. Not saying it will or won't, and not saying we should or should not draft him, but saying we shouldn't draft him if he does fall is wrong imo. You seem to me to be saying if he does fall then it's because teams are worried about his maturity and therefore, we shouldn't take him. I don't agree w that. If he does fall that doesn't mean shit to me. Virtually every year we get talent that shouldn't have been available to us if other teams were better at drafting, so if it's a move Ozzie feels comfortable with, then I have no issue with it. I'll take his track record over the 28 teams drafting in front of us by and large.




  12. #102

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by BleedPurple92 View Post
    Ozzie's never really followed a pure BPA. He's always had an element of Need in his picks. It could be BPA, but it's a position that we could have a need at in a year or two. Like how he drafted Ray Rice, pretty sure he knew he wasn't gonna keep Willis around with that big contract.
    It's no secret when they make their board up, talent and need both play a part in the rankings.

    So maybe BPA isn't technically correct. How about, stay true to the board? That may sum it up better.




  13. #103

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Vontaze is a thug, too many penalties. Speaking of sun devils, suggs is the man! Bleacher report had a funny take on his feud with skip bayless, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ed-raven-12412




  14. #104
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    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Vontaze Burfict is a thug, huh?
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger



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  15. #105

    Re: If the Ravens can't get Vontaze Burfict...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah W View Post
    I could run a 4.6 at 240 in HS. I think Hightower can. Dude is cut up. Burfict is very explosive though. It is going to come down to the mental part of the game, they are both fantastic athletes. Burfict has quickness, but Hightower is massive. I like them both, but trust the ravens scouts to properly rank them based on the stuff that does not always show up on tape. Hightower does sound like a very bright guy in the interviews I saw.
    Gotta call BS on your 4.6 at 240lbs. If you could do that you were a freak athlete. Last year at the combine on 3 LBs ran faster than a 4.6. Only about 15 over the last 5 years. Most of the guys were outside LBs.




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