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  1. #37

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)



    The Flacco / Eli comparison is valid. And of course Eli got all sorts of criticism until he improved.

    The Flacco / Brady comparison fails because Brady won two SBs in those first 4 years. And while victories and titles are the result of teams not individuals, Brady's postseason play was far superior to Flacco's (in the 4 year comparison).

    Smith's first 4 years are bad, plus no one is saying Smith is a consistently good QB yet even if they are saying he might have turned the corner with Harbaugh's help.

    Joe wasn't helped last week by our O-line or gameplan, imo; and eventhough his rating was very good, and his performance, considering the situation, was better than good, he still didn't put up the production to quiet the average critic. Hopefully he does this weekend.




  2. #38

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    The Flacco / Eli comparison is valid. And of course Eli got all sorts of criticism until he improved.
    From the national media? Don't recall that. At all.

    And due to my work I am trapped inside watching and listening to stuff all day long when NFL is playing and being talked about 24/7. Maybe in New York, but he damn sur wasn't getting crushed in the national media like Joe is.

    Can anyone imagine what they would be saying about Joe is he had this line his first 4 years...

    55games

    55% comp

    199.7 YPG

    77 TD

    64 INT

    70.6 rating.

    Could you even fathom what the rhetoric would be??




  3. #39

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left - very surprising

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    Huh?

    Eli is on his 8th year, Flacco his 4th. We will cross that bridge in 2015, not now. Eli had a 77 rating in year 3, and a 73 rating in year 4.

    Eli never had a QB rating of over 77 his 1st 4 years. 7-7.

    Flacco is so far ahead of Eli at this point of his career they almost aren't even comparable.

    In the postseason of Eli's 4th year he was: 72/119 for 854 yds 6 TDs/1 Int for a rating of 95.7....all games on the road and the SB against an undefeated team.

    That was exactly his turning point. The next year his QB rating was 12 points higher than his first 4 year average. And it has been decent to good since.

    Not arguing with anything you said, but it is about here where Flacco can step up and remain ahead of Eli's development curve.




  4. #40

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    From the national media? Don't recall that. At all.

    And due to my work I am trapped inside watching and listening to stuff all day long when NFL is playing and being talked about 24/7. Maybe in New York, but he damn sur wasn't getting crushed in the national media like Joe is.

    Can anyone imagine what they would be saying about Joe is he had this line his first 4 years...

    55games

    55% comp

    199.7 YPG

    77 TD

    64 INT

    70.6 rating.

    Could you even fathom what the rhetoric would be??
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sp.../15giants.html

    Plenty of examples just like this one. Plus Tiki called him out pre-SB run. I would argue he actually had it a lot worse than Flacco, mainly because he was in NY, but still.




  5. #41

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/15/sp.../15giants.html

    Plenty of examples just like this one. Plus Tiki called him out pre-SB run. I would argue he actually had it a lot worse than Flacco, mainly because he was in NY, but still.
    Again, all that was in New York. Local, not national.

    If I had a QB who was picked 1st overall and was flat out terrible for 4 years straight playing for my team I would be complaining as well.

    The media has changed drastically over the last 5 years for the worse, I will say that.




  6. #42

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left - very surprising

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    In the postseason of Eli's 4th year he was: 72/119 for 854 yds 6 TDs/1 Int for a rating of 95.7....all games on the road and the SB against an undefeated team.

    That was exactly his turning point. The next year his QB rating was 12 points higher than his first 4 year average. And it has been decent to good since.

    Not arguing with anything you said, but it is about here where Flacco can step up and remain ahead of Eli's development curve.
    So far in his 4th year Joe is ahead of that pace with a 97 rating.




  7. #43
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    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Some Ravens fans just don't realize how good they have it. As another poster mentioned, you can name any of the QBs that would be considered among the league's best, and look at their first four years as a Pro. Joe Flacco's first four years compared favorably to the vast majority of them, whether it be statistics or playoff victories.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  8. #44

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    Again, all that was in New York. Local, not national.

    If I had a QB who was picked 1st overall and was flat out terrible for 4 years straight playing for my team I would be complaining as well.

    The media has changed drastically over the last 5 years for the worse, I will say that.
    It wasn't just in NY. And it was worse, and from his teammates and GM and coaches at times. And of course 'terrible' is relative. He didn't even start his first year, Warner did; that half-year he was awful. The next 3 were mid-70s rating (not good but not night-and-day different than an 80 rating) due to Ints.

    Like I said, this is about where Flacco needs to step up, and to some he seems to be stepping backwards. I don't agree with that, as I see areas that are improved and slight variations of statistics can occur due to extenuating circumstances.




  9. #45

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left - very surprising

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    So far in his 4th year Joe is ahead of that pace with a 97 rating.
    I agree. But it needs to continue, and I hope and suspect it will.




  10. #46

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left - very surprising

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    So far in his 4th year Joe is ahead of that pace with a 97 rating.
    Joe's first 4 seasons is on par with some of the greats.

    I'm expecting big things from Joe. While he isn't there yet, i think he will get there. His numbers are impressive when you compare it to other guys at this stage in their career.
    Lardarius "The predator" Webb





  11. #47

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    It wasn't just in NY. And it was worse, and from his teammates and GM and coaches at times. And of course 'terrible' is relative. He didn't even start his first year, Warner did; that half-year he was awful. The next 3 were mid-70s rating (not good but not night-and-day different than an 80 rating) due to Ints.

    .
    We will just have to agree to disagree on the scrutiny, again it is all relative to performance for the sake of this conversation. For what Flacco has done there should not be one shred of criticism, instead it is all he gets. For what Eli did you could argue that in year 4 he should have been competing for a job, and getting shredded day after day in the national media. He might have taken some but not nearly what he should have given his play.

    Also Flacco currently has a career rating of 86, not 80.

    And 70 relative to that is bad. Matter of fact it is bad relative to any number you look at.

    A 16 point difference is not anywhere near similar. For example, the guy who had a 86 rating this year was the 13th best QB, while a guy with a rating of 70 would be the 30th ranked QB. They are not close, not similar. not on the same ballpark. And yes that is day and night when you ar talking about top 13 vs one of the worst in the league.

    Also "because of his INT's" isn't quite a valid excuse for Manning struggles, it is one of the main reasons his rating was so low. Because he sucked in the turnover department and pretty much every other department. That is why he had a 70 rating, because he was terrible. He was the one out there turning it over left and right, it wasn't anyone else. No clue why you would think to give him a pass in one of the most critical areas of good QB play.




  12. #48

    Re: Comparing Flacco to the other playoff QBs left (Merged Threads)

    Quote Originally Posted by 52decleetzu View Post
    We will just have to agree to disagree on the scrutiny, again it is all relative to performance for the sake of this conversation. For what Flacco has done there should not be one shred of criticism, instead it is all he gets. For what Eli did you could argue that in year 4 he should have been competing for a job, and getting shredded day after day in the national media. He might have taken some but not nearly what he should have given his play.

    Also Flacco currently has a career rating of 86, not 80.

    And 70 relative to that is bad. Matter of fact it is bad relative to any number you look at.

    A 16 point difference is not anywhere near similar. For example, the guy who had a 86 rating this year was the 13th best QB, while a guy with a rating of 70 would be the 30th ranked QB. They are not close, not similar. not on the same ballpark. And yes that is day and night when you ar talking about top 13 vs one of the worst in the league.

    Also "because of his INT's" isn't quite a valid excuse for Manning struggles, it is one of the main reasons his rating was so low. Because he sucked in the turnover department and pretty much every other department. That is why he had a 70 rating, because he was terrible. He was the one out there turning it over left and right, it wasn't anyone else. No clue why you would think to give him a pass in one of the most critical areas of good QB play.
    There is really no comparison in terms of scrutiny, Eli got it worse by far (and as you said he was a bit more deserving), but it makes sense that Ravens fans are more aware of Ravens criticism.

    Where you getting 70? I see no 70. And 80.9 is this year's rating for Flacco (not 86). You trying to claim that Joe was getting ripped for playing like he did his rookie (or even 2nd year)? No chance. It is the flatline or downtrend that is producing the criticism (same was the case with Eli even at a lower rating). It is the postseason underperformance as well that has resulted in some criticism.

    The Ints were not presented as an excuse, I am merely pointed out in what way Eli improved himself. And obviously it is easier to pass now than 4 years ago.

    No one is giving anyone a pass except you with Flacco. So Eli went from terrible to good in one year and won a Superbowl. I wonder what flipped the switch there? Hopefully Joe can call him up for some advice before Sunday.




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