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Thread: Patriots D

  1. #76

    Re: Patriots D



    Sorry, this has gotten off topic. We are now talking about the Ravens D (which is interesting). My initial post was that the Pats D is not as bad as the stats show. Plus it is not how they were playing but how they are playing now.




  2. #77
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    Re: Patriots D

    To stay on topic, my question to Patriots fans would be this: With the idea that the Patriots are better than their ranking, are they close enough to the caliber of the Houston Texans, to be able to take away Torrey Smith with single coverage and successfully stack the box to stop Ray Rice? In 2010, Rice only had eighty eight yards rushing. The time before that, the Ravens weren't hiding the fact that he was getting the ball and the Patriots did stack the box, but unsuccessfully.

    How confident are you guys in the Patriots ability to take Rice out of the equation, the way that Houston did, while taking Torrey Smith out at the same time?
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  3. #78
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    Re: Patriots D

    in talking defenses...I see the Ravens forcing turnovers by intercepting Brady. the key for the Ravens is scoring TD's off of all the NE turnovers!




  4. #79

    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    To stay on topic, my question to Patriots fans would be this: With the idea that the Patriots are better than their ranking, are they close enough to the caliber of the Houston Texans, to be able to take away Torrey Smith with single coverage and successfully stack the box to stop Ray Rice? In 2010, Rice only had eighty eight yards rushing. The time before that, the Ravens weren't hiding the fact that he was getting the ball and the Patriots did stack the box, but unsuccessfully.

    How confident are you guys in the Patriots ability to take Rice out of the equation, the way that Houston did, while taking Torrey Smith out at the same time?
    The Patriots D is not in the same league as Houston's. Ravens should have a much easier time moving the ball than last week. I suspect that the Pats will gear up to stop Rice as usual and take their chances in single coverage on Smith. Flacco will definitely have some chances to take advantage down the field.




  5. #80
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    Re: Patriots D

    How confident are Patriots fans in their teams' ability to effectively stop Ray Rice?
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  6. #81

    Re: Patriots D

    Ravens got a blessing in disguise playing fast, physical smart Texan D first then having to play NE next, nowhere as fast or as physical or well coached.




  7. #82

    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by Ks1102 View Post
    Sorry, this has gotten off topic. We are now talking about the Ravens D (which is interesting). My initial post was that the Pats D is not as bad as the stats show. Plus it is not how they were playing but how they are playing now.
    OK, getting back on topic:

    You say the Pats D is not as bad as the stats look, and they've been playing better down the stretch, let's see:

    On the season, the Pats D ranked 15th, allowing an average of 21.4 pts/game.

    In the last 6 regular season games, you guys allowed 20,24,27, 23,24 and 21 points. that's an average of 23.2 pts/game, WORSE than your overall season average.

    Not once in the last 6 did you hold an opponent under 20 points. Furthermore, the teams you faced in that stretch were Philly, Indy, Wash, Denver, Miami and Buffalo. Not exactly the Packers or Saints. Only ONE of those teams has an offense ranked in the top-10 (Philly). Buffalo is squarely average, ranked 14th. The other 4 are all amongst the worst offenses in the NFL (ranked 20th or worse in scoring offense).

    In short, your defense finished the year playing worse than you started, and against decidedly sub-par competition. Tell me again how they're underrated?




  8. #83

    Re: Patriots D

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    OK, getting back on topic:

    You say the Pats D is not as bad as the stats look, and they've been playing better down the stretch, let's see:

    On the season, the Pats D ranked 15th, allowing an average of 21.4 pts/game.

    In the last 6 regular season games, you guys allowed 20,24,27, 23,24 and 21 points. that's an average of 23.2 pts/game, WORSE than your overall season average.

    Not once in the last 6 did you hold an opponent under 20 points. Furthermore, the teams you faced in that stretch were Philly, Indy, Wash, Denver, Miami and Buffalo. Not exactly the Packers or Saints. Only ONE of those teams has an offense ranked in the top-10 (Philly). Buffalo is squarely average, ranked 14th. The other 4 are all amongst the worst offenses in the NFL (ranked 20th or worse in scoring offense).

    In short, your defense finished the year playing worse than you started, and against decidedly sub-par competition. Tell me again how they're underrated?
    I will play devil's advocate, because I agree they are not as bad as people here suggest (or hope). They are of course not a good defense.

    For starters, you arbitrarily picked the last 6 games. Looking at the schedule I assume it is because the 7th-to-last game they allowed 3 points. (8th to last 16 points).

    Secondly, they beat Philly 38-20 and let up a TD with 0:32 left in the game. 25 point lead (38-13) in closing minutes turns into 18 point win after allowing meaningless TD in final minute.

    The Colts game they won 31-24, and admittedly it got a bit close, but they were up 31-3 to start the 4th quarter, and the last TD (to cut it to 7) was scored with 0:36 seconds left.

    No excuses in the Washington game, it was a 34-27 win, but the Skins scored all points legitimately and the game was tied in the 3rd quarter.

    Denver game (reg season), they went down 13-7 in the first quarter, had a 27-16 lead at half, 34-16 to start the 3rd, then allowed (and scored themselves) 1 TD in the 4th for a 41-23, 18 point win.

    Miami game, they went down 17-0 in the first half, scored 27 straight points and with a 10 point lead (27-17) allowed a Miami TD with 1:48 left in the game. That was too close to be called prevent TD for sure.

    Buffalo game, they went down 21-0 in the first quarter, scored 49 straight points, allowed no points for the final 3 quarters, and won by 4 TDs.

    In short, multiple times they allowed points early and when they did they clamped down (assuming adjustments were made) and won, or they allowed meaningless points late.

    The overall stats do not show the circumstances.

    Their terrible yardage ranking is also affected, somewhat, by such circumstances (and every team has such games, but I don't think as many). For example in the Colts game, they allowed 114 yards thru 41 minutes (excellent), and built a 4 TD lead. Then in the final 19 minutes, they allowed 297 yards (absurd) and finished the game allowing over 400 yards (poor). There is no doubt they were trying, but up 3-4 TDs that late, you are in some kind of prevent or semi-prevent, or giving some people some rest.
    Last edited by Haloti92; 01-19-2012 at 01:45 AM.




  9. #84

    Re: Patriots D

    You did the work for me. Of course this is not proof of a good D. Im just saying there are many circumstances that you can say that they are not as bad as said to be. Situationa football is being played here. And to a previous poster please dont get me wrong. I am not saying the Patd D is anything close to the Texans, they are not close. But I feel they do not need to be.
    I think the Pats will try to contain Rice. I feel they will do a better job than in the past but he will not be nullified. I think the Pats will want to let Flacco try to win the game and or try to keep up with Brady. I think that will be the Pats game plan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Haloti92 View Post
    I will play devil's advocate, because I agree they are not as bad as people here suggest (or hope). They are of course not a good defense.

    For starters, you arbitrarily picked the last 6 games. Looking at the schedule I assume it is because the 7th-to-last game they allowed 3 points. (8th to last 16 points).

    Secondly, they beat Philly 38-20 and let up a TD with 0:32 left in the game. 25 point lead (38-13) in closing minutes turns into 18 point win after allowing meaningless TD in final minute.

    The Colts game they won 31-24, and admittedly it got a bit close, but they were up 31-3 to start the 4th quarter, and the last TD (to cut it to 7) was scored with 0:36 seconds left.

    No excuses in the Washington game, it was a 34-27 win, but the Skins scored all points legitimately and the game was tied in the 3rd quarter.

    Denver game (reg season), they went down 13-7 in the first quarter, had a 27-16 lead at half, 34-16 to start the 3rd, then allowed (and scored themselves) 1 TD in the 4th for a 41-23, 18 point win.

    Miami game, they went down 17-0 in the first half, scored 27 straight points and with a 10 point lead (27-17) allowed a Miami TD with 1:48 left in the game. That was too close to be called prevent TD for sure.

    Buffalo game, they went down 21-0 in the first quarter, scored 49 straight points, allowed no points for the final 3 quarters, and won by 4 TDs.

    In short, multiple times they allowed points early and when they did they clamped down (assuming adjustments were made) and won, or they allowed meaningless points late.

    The overall stats do not show the circumstances.

    Their terrible yardage ranking is also affected, somewhat, by such circumstances (and every team has such games, but I don't think as many). For example in the Colts game, they allowed 114 yards thru 41 minutes (excellent), and built a 4 TD lead. Then in the final 19 minutes, they allowed 297 yards (absurd) and finished the game allowing over 400 yards (poor). There is no doubt they were trying, but up 3-4 TDs that late, you are in some kind of prevent or semi-prevent, or giving some people some rest.




  10. #85
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    Re: Patriots D

    The Patriots biggest strength on defense is their huge turnover margin. If they only get half those turnovers, they are probably not in the playoffs. I suspect that the reason they have such a big number is that Brady & Co. put tremendous pressure on offenses to keep up and in doing so, the other team takes chances and provides the opportunity for turnovers (they had 23 INTs on the year).

    If Brady can hang 40+ points on the Ravens defense, it doesn't matter what the Ravens offense does and you just tip your hat to them and move on to next season.

    I don't think that is going to happen (I would be very disappointed if it did). A more realistic scenario is that the Patriots score in the 25-30 point range. If the Ravens execute their offense (exploit the match up wins that are available, don't turn the ball over, catch the balls thrown to them), they have a chance to outscore the Patriots, imo.

    This game is all on Cameron, Flacco, the offensive line, etc....preparation and execution.




  11. #86

    Re: Patriots D

    Agree. Also if Brady is protected back there it will be a long day for the Ravens. In the past the Ravens have gotten too him sometimes more effectively than other times.
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterB58 View Post
    The Patriots biggest strength on defense is their huge turnover margin. If they only get half those turnovers, they are probably not in the playoffs. I suspect that the reason they have such a big number is that Brady & Co. put tremendous pressure on offenses to keep up and in doing so, the other team takes chances and provides the opportunity for turnovers (they had 23 INTs on the year).

    If Brady can hang 40+ points on the Ravens defense, it doesn't matter what the Ravens offense does and you just tip your hat to them and move on to next season.

    I don't think that is going to happen (I would be very disappointed if it did). A more realistic scenario is that the Patriots score in the 25-30 point range. If the Ravens execute their offense (exploit the match up wins that are available, don't turn the ball over, catch the balls thrown to them), they have a chance to outscore the Patriots, imo.

    This game is all on Cameron, Flacco, the offensive line, etc....preparation and execution.




  12. #87

    Re: Patriots D

    2 out of 3 aint bad.......the Patriots are very well coached. But I agree with you on the other 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulderraven View Post
    Ravens got a blessing in disguise playing fast, physical smart Texan D first then having to play NE next, nowhere as fast or as physical or well coached.




  13. #88

    Re: Patriots D

    Since we have been off topic I might as well ask. Im coming down from the Boston area in April and want to know where to go for the best crab cakes. I eat like a sumo so I want to eat like a slob. I want to be stuffed to the gills with crab cakes but not drop $100 bucks for one person. Any recomendations?




  14. #89

    Re: Patriots D

    The Pats D doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as either the Texans or the ravens. That said, they can do enough to keep the game in hand.

    I don't expect they can shut Smith down even if they don't sell out against the run, but that they can effectively limit Rice to the point that the ravens offense cannot score enough points to keep up.

    Smith could get 3-4 rec for 125yds & a TD as long as Rice is kept under 100yds and 1td or less. I'd bet the Pats could live with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    To stay on topic, my question to Patriots fans would be this: With the idea that the Patriots are better than their ranking, are they close enough to the caliber of the Houston Texans, to be able to take away Torrey Smith with single coverage and successfully stack the box to stop Ray Rice? In 2010, Rice only had eighty eight yards rushing. The time before that, the Ravens weren't hiding the fact that he was getting the ball and the Patriots did stack the box, but unsuccessfully.

    How confident are you guys in the Patriots ability to take Rice out of the equation, the way that Houston did, while taking Torrey Smith out at the same time?




  15. #90

    Re: Patriots D

    I'm confident they can come closer to last years effectiveness (kept him to 88yds) than the debacle that was the 2009 wildcard game.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    How confident are Patriots fans in their teams' ability to effectively stop Ray Rice?




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